MJ Gottlieb is a serial entrepreneur having owned and operated four clothing brands, a sales agency and strategic consulting ﬁrm over the last 24 years. MJ works with large scale brands and individuals as well as smaller brands and start-ups in need of establishing a brand presence.
ep 49 – Jackie Broe Sober Since 6/26/2018
Newlywed and new podcast, http://sobermagic.com/ Jackie Broe talks about how she got sober, and what she does to continue to crush it in sobriety and entrepreneurship.
Check out her new podcast! http://sobermagic.com/podcast-2/
From over five years in prison to rubbing elbows with multi-millionaires every day, Zachary Babcock helps entrepreneurs launch, grow, and monetize top-shelf passive income businesses and personal brands.
He interviews celebrities and industry leaders on his top-rated Apple Podcast, Underdog Empowerment, and has a broad perspective from both extremes of life.
I’m grateful for my time in prison more than anything else in my life bro because that builds strength of character and mental fortitude, and like maybe the darkest times of your life or the best times of your life, if you can find a way to learn from it and to let it empower you.
Welcome to self made and sober. I’m your host Andrew a cease with self made dash coaching.com. And in this podcast, it’s my job to interview people who are not only crushing it in business, but have also struggled with addiction in the past and our long term recovery. Be sure to join our Facebook group, where we help entrepreneurs grow and scale their [email protected] slash groups, slash s MC mastermind like self made coaching mastermind. I hope you Enjoy the show. And be sure to subscribe and rate the show afterwards. So you can get notified each Friday when we put out a new episode. And with me today is Zachary Babcock. And Zach, you have a very unique story as far as how you got sober because you’re not one of those 12 step I started doing the steps and then my life completely changed. But yours is one where and I’ll let you tell your story. But it’s a it’s a different path than most and yet you’re still coming out on top. It’s a crazy story of triumph. And I’m so excited to get to hear directly from you. So give us a background on you know your addiction and then you know what happened and what brought you to where you’re at now.
Right on bro. Hey, I appreciate you having me on the show. Man. I’m it’s cool to jam with you here today. But yeah, dude. You know, as I feel like we all like we all can relate our story You know, I’m saying especially, you know, people have been through addiction or whatnot, but I grew up dude. without a father figure. I always did things to fit in with the crowd wanted to be accepted, you know, and I mean, we all do to a degree, but I did it like over too much. And so I always had an addictive personality I still do to this day, I just changed it into positive channeled into different different resources and outlets or whatnot, as you would say. But Dude, I started smoking weed and drinking and stuff when I was nine years old was in rehabs ever since then was in and out of boys homes and juveniles all throughout my teens. And then I went to prison when I was 19 for being a knucklehead. But, you know, this is a huge huge story will probably dive more into I’m just kind of brushing over it, you know what I mean? But um, well for me, though, I got out after doing four years flat, and then I went back to prison just 20 days before my twin sons were born. This because I got a DWI x i was out partying because I was so my life wakes I thought that I would never be able to get a job had just gotten fired after getting a promotion so I was a convicted felon. And and for me though I woke up though dude and I that pain, it was like, dude, if I keep doing what I’m doing, I’m going to be in and out of prison my entire life and I’m going to miss out on my own my kids. And all I wanted growing up was to be the father that I didn’t have and now I’m missing out on that because of that. And so that pain was enough for me to shift my entire paradigm. It was you know, my desire to change became strong and my desire say same at that point. And and it’s just been ever since that moment moved in a completely different direction of my life.
And so what would you say your paradigm was prior to that experience in your life versus what it turned into?
Yeah, dude, what it was dude is like that addictive personality that I still had to this day. See? I In the in the victim mentality, then, you know, blaming everybody for everything, you know, not taking responsibility now I take complete ownership of everything that was like a huge shift. But I’m also prior to that. Like, it really didn’t have, for me, this is my true belief. I feel like, at least I know this is from for me, you know, and I feel like it’s different. It’s different for every every person, but I feel like it what it comes down to man, I didn’t have a chief aim in life or anything that was driving any motive, not motivation, but any driving force in my life, like I didn’t have anything to shoot for. And so I was just kind of going through the motions in life. And, um, and that led to, you know, searching to do drugs and put myself in risky situations, to express that. And then when I found that chief aim in life, hey, I gotta get back in my son’s life and be a father. Like it all changed. I had a purpose I was moving with purpose and, and then that’s also grown and evolved into these creative outlets, what I’m doing now with my business, and like, I’m able to That, that addicted person on to what I’m doing now kind of.
And so your whole mantra and the person that you are, it’s about being the underdog coming out on top in defying all odds, and I mean, you know where you’re at now it’s like, well, you know, it’s easy for you to say that now, but like, the version of you that was the underdog that wasn’t winning, like what’s going through your head? Are you? Are you optimistic at that time? Or is it just?
No? Yeah, so that’s a really good a good question.
And, alright, so I’ve always known in the back of my mind that I was going to do some extraordinary shit. And I’m not saying that from an arrogant standpoint, I’m just this is how I’ve always had that. However, there’s been times in my life where I felt like there was no light at the end of the tunnel, and I Felt like the world was crumbling around me. And you know, there’s been really tests and attacked like, for an example do when I was down in prison The first time I did the first four years and I was down in the hole for a tattoo violation. I’m down there that you know the holes the prison inside of the prison you can walk three steps that said it’s a small, dark, cold, lonely, depressing cell you get very little no human interaction. I’m down there for two weeks at the time and I had to stay there for two months and two weeks into it. I get called back to the captain’s office and they tell me that my mom had to break into the bathroom with a screwdriver and found my sister dead on the floor for needle in her arm. And that like right there dude, like they gave me a 32nd phone call my mom were bawling her eyes out you know, I’m getting ready Mrs. funeral. My mom’s mourning the death of her only daughter. I get put back into that cell I getting so by myself for the next three days. I don’t eat at a restaurant. That’s it crying my eyes out. Thinking about all the The main things I ever said and did to my sister and the goodbye I never get to tell her. But Dude, I woke up on that third day and I was like, you know, like, at that point my life like, dude, I didn’t even know when I was coming home from prison. I didn’t have a parole date. I know, I didn’t know when I was going to be a free man. Again, I’m 21 years old, like life is not looking good. And I woke up on that third day and I’m like, dude, I don’t know what’s the reason why I’m still here but there’s gotta be a reason What can I do to find happiness and peace right now? And it was that question literally that question that led to finding happiness and peace the most peaceful ever been in my life and and probably the most adverse situation but towards the end of that two months, I had developed this routine out of the result of that question because it got me to focus on the right things and and I found that peace of mind and a really really dark time in my life. And the reason why is because man that question man, when we get into those adverse situations will ask the wrong What is this always going to happen to me, Baba. And that’s focusing your your Mine on the wrong things like anytime you hear a question whether you’re saying or somebody else, you immediately start searching for the answer. If I’m like, Andrew, what color is your shirt? Shoes, bro? Everybody listen, this podcast you and me are both thinking about what’s the color of his shoes. This is how our brains work. And so as those empowering questions, I’ve done it plenty of times when I get in those adverse situations, and I asked the disempower, was this always going to happen to me? You got to ask those things. The right thing, though, to find the right answers.
So once you discovered the power of asking the right question, was that like an all of a sudden thing where you were like, Hey, I asked the right question, and now my life is getting better, or was this sort of something you had noticed? Like, in retrospect, when you’re asking the right questions, you’re getting better answers.
Because at that time, I was 21 years old is 2010. I didn’t know anything I didn’t. I didn’t even know what self help or personal development was at that point in time, my life but what the retrospect came in in 2017 I read a book by Tony Robbins called awaken the giant within and in that book he talks about hey the the quality of questions you ask yourself determine the quality of your life. And he talks about whatever you you whenever you hear a question it it that’s what it shifts your focus to and if you ask it with intensity you’ll find those answers I’m like, Dude, this dude is not a fraud he’s a real deal because I literally did this right here that’s where it came from.
And this episode is brought to you by Tony Robbins not being a fraud calm. He does some powerful stuff and have you ever attended one of those? One of those events?
year dude up w Chicago 2017 or 2018 2018 but yet, do when people say he’s a fraud? I’m like, dude, you are you’re just a miserable. You just looking for a way to hate on somebody like he makes the money he makes from that personal development stuff is a drop in the bucket compared to what he makes with to all of his other businesses, real estate investing all What’s up ninja dude doesn’t need the money does it really does care about people and this stuff is legit. All of the stuff that he teaches is legit.
Yeah, man, I I saw him at an event where he was a keynote with like Gary Vee and a couple other big names. And this was like, maybe 18 months ago. And I remember that day I woke up, it was like four in the morning and I was just like, super tired. Like, I was considering leaving early, before he came on. And I was like, You know what, I’ve always wanted to see him. And then he comes out and he’s like, Hey, guys, I usually go for 72 hours, but like, it’s a cool if we just go for four. And I was like, What do you talk about for hours, like, give your speech and then like, I gotta go home and do it. He literally like lit up that entire room. There were thousands of like, 678 plus figure CEOs, like in suits, like jumping full of energy, like four hours felt like five minutes. And I was just like, dang, this is it. You know, I think that you You’re right people people like to hate on hate law. He’s making money off of these people’s misery like self development is. It’s all just BS. But it’s like, I mean, I know how I felt at the end of it. I came home, I told my wife, it’s like, I’m a different person. And like, you know, were off after like a day. But like, in that moment, though, I was just on fire. So I’m, I’m a, I’m a fan, for sure. So, so we’re, we’re looking back on the questions that you’re asking, you’re getting the better answers. Tony Robbins agrees that when you ask better questions, you’ll get better answers. So do you apply that? Is that just something that comes naturally to you? Or do you consciously think of that when it happens in your life today?
I do it now, today consciously. It wasn’t until I read the book and was like, wow, I actually did that. And that’s exactly what happened. And it’s true. And then now, you know, because it’ll be too We’re you know, dude, anybody says like, they don’t have bad days and they don’t get pissed off your damn liar we are. We’re all human beings, bro. You know, I’m saying, and it’s just impossible not to feel those feelings and not to have dark thoughts, emotions and desires. So there’s gonna be days where we’re, I’m having a bad day, everything’s going wrong and it’s just like frustrating, right? And I’m like, and then I gotta catch myself like, Nah, you know, that’s not and then and then ask myself and so sometimes I don’t want to sometimes I don’t even want to do it. I’m like, No, fuck that. I just want to be Ben’s want to be mad right now, you know, but I find a way to bring myself back into being in a resourceful state versus, you know, just making things worse than what they already are.
So are you one of the people that are really about like, what can I do in this moment, as opposed to like, you know, what’s going to happen or or dwelling on the past like what’s kind of your take on like, what’s happening? in your life, is it kind of one foot in one foot in the future? What’s that look like? So it’s like,
I’m all about the moment dominating the moment, because that’s all we really have, you know, but my mind always wants to go to the future. It always wants to think like is always like, strategically, okay, we need to, we want to get this or how are we going to get that, you know, I’m saying but it it’s, I’m always thinking about visualizing what I want also visualizing how my life will be if I don’t do the things I need to do and how I’m going to be filled with regret if I don’t I like to use both positive and negative visualization because I actually find more power and visualizing negative things and I do positive because it gets me the pain gets me to spurred the action that needed to prevent but um, but yeah, man I it’s it’s, it’s I’m always dominated What can I what’s the next thing I can do to get me one step closer to the goal is always that thought this dominate my mind, but I’m always thinking about the future. So it’s good. Gonna, it’s kind of hard sometimes I, it’s, it’s hard for me to stay present, which is ultimately, the best way to be if you could be calm your mind and it’s, I struggle so much with meditation even though I do it. It’s like, I’m always like, ah, but it’s something that it’s hard for me to master.
Yeah, meditation is one of those things that’s like, everyone who does it is like, it’s the best thing in the world. And then people will like, try it for a second. It’s like, oh, that worked really well. And then it’s like, I hate this now, but I like it. But my brain is just always racing. And I mean, I’ve I’ve found benefits but just even a couple minutes of like a guided meditation. Something, you know, very low level like I’m, I’m not the guy sitting there for I had a guest once who like he does like meditation retreats, and I believe he said he did. It was like, it’s like 20 minutes in the morning, 20 minutes at night. And then he’ll just do it like five minute gaps here in there. Each Each day, like, you know, when he catches a break, and, and I just remember thinking like, dude, if, if I could, if I could meditate for like a combined one hour every day, I know that it would make me probably like, a lot more, even in mellow and less like extreme especially when there’s times when when I feel like things are bad, but what I’ve come to realize is like, the bad is just my interpretation of it. And everything is just everything is just how we give the context to it, you know, somebody punches a hole in the wall, you’d be like, Man, that person’s mad. But then at the same time, it’s like, what was the context? It was like that person was told if he punched a hole in the wall, he’d get $10 million. And he did it and it’s like, well, that’s that’s not trauma. That’s, that’s a great thing that just happened. So it’s it’s all you know, the and this is, you know, just Andrew throwing his philosophy on life. I think a lot of things. It’s it comes to More so to not so much good or bad, but more so just preference because so many events just by themselves. They not they’re not necessarily a good or bad like, I got a DUI. And then I got sober. So like, is that DUI a bad thing or a good thing? Like, I wouldn’t recommend getting a DUI but I know I wouldn’t have found recovery without it. So, So which is it? You know, it’s it’s how I choose to look at the situation. You asked me the day it happened. I’m pretty confident. I was telling everybody about the bad day that I had the bad night. You know, you going to prison like that’s not something that most people would say. Find the silver lining in it yet you’ve managed to come out on top.
So bro, bro, like if if anything? like Dude, I wouldn’t take back none of that dude, I’m I’m grateful for my time in prison more than anything. else in my life, bro because that builds strength of character and mental fortitude. And like maybe the darkest times of your life or the best times of your life, if you can find a way to learn from it and to let it empower you, if you’re just going to play the victim mentality what was is going to happen to me and blame everybody else and moping your sorrows, then yeah, you’re going to have a really rough time and you’re going to suffer as a result but if you could find that dude, that the dark days that break you are literally the days that make you flat out.
That’s such a great quote. That’ll be like a lovely the days that break your the days that make you mean to put that on a T shirt.
At a Tony Robbins event,
I can’t remember where I seen it first, but I seen that quote. And I was like, Yes, because it resonated with me. I’m like, it’s true. It really is. It’s the you grow from pain. You grow from adversity, you grow mean if stuff that’s why that’s why this is a little bit down a rabbit hole but that’s why would people saying oh, they’re just winning because their privilege are they look here man, underprivileged is the privilege, dude you put me heads up versus anybody that’s been spoon fed and had everything given to them their whole entire life. I’m going to dominate them heads up every single time because I’m closer to reality because I’ve felt and experienced pain and because I’m hungrier, and I’m going to outwork them every single time and that’s the case with anybody that’s underdog or underprivileged or doesn’t you know, doesn’t have all the resources Dude, you got to understand that that is literally I would take that any day then then being handed everything flat out dude.
I’m so on board with that. That’s one of like my I’ve got a nine month old and like, one of the fears that I have is that like, he’ll grow up just being like, entitled. It’s like, well, because Andrews my dad like I’m entitled to live in this nice house like I’m entitled to, like, have a car, I’m entitled to have food and like eat dinner out and stuff like that. And like, I don’t want them to grow up to be the weak entitled person that’s just like, Well, I was born a white male in 2019 in a upper class house, so therefore, I’ve got it made in the shades like you didn’t do anything. All you did was get lucky at birth. And, but there’s people that just think that that’s, that’s just, I’m entitled to that. And because I’m entitled, just give it to me and people don’t feel like they have to work for it and what you’re saying, people are like, Oh, man, like that person’s got it so easy, like having the leg up is one thing. But like you said, Man, when someone is scrappy and is willing to go the extra mile, you put them head to head. It’s like a human versus a little Lion like it’s great that maybe you’re smarter than it. But you put you put you two alone in a room and guess who’s coming out alive?
Yeah, the line. Exactly, dude. And so it’s like both sides they’re the opress dude that if you had that kind of mentality that victim mentality Guess what? You’re going to be a slave to that your hometown, you have no power blaming other things have reasons why you can’t have what you want, dude, I’m sorry, I have no empathy for victim mindset person. I literally dude, let’s be for real here. You like are they you put me up against any black person in the world that doesn’t have a convicted record and we go apply for some jobs. They’re getting the job before me 100% of the time period I and I was able to take that position that I put myself in below ground zero and still built a six figure plus business because I was hungry for it. So there’s no excuse for anybody why you can’t do certain Thanks. And then on the flip side of that, the privileged guy that does have that that was born into it now it’s not necessarily his folks, you can’t help it from being born into somebody that was a go getter and went out made something of their life. But that person, though, that grows up that way, and doesn’t have that fight in that hunger and which is given to them everything. You put them up against that underprivileged person, whether it was me or whether it’s some poor black kid that came from a bad community, whatever, that person me or that black, whatever, whoever it is, it’s going to dominate every single time especially in the long run. And so, you gotta, you gotta I feel like I’m the same way dude because like, I’m starting to make money my business and stuff and I got kids I’m not getting I don’t give them shit, dude, like, I take them. We go all the time. Like for Mother’s Day, we went and bought Mother’s Day cards, so $1 of them at the dollar store and bought a bunch of them and then go and sell them for two or $3. door to door before mostly Hey, we’re going to save you a trip. From the sword make you know in case you forgot to get a Mother’s Day card or whatever, stuff like that all the time, it’s teaching them how to be resourceful and how to go out and hustle and make something of their life. You know,
that’s such a great idea. Like if you’re in my neighborhood, like, I should just give you my list of things that I need to remember, like birthdays. And just, you know, just like Amazon Prime. Remember to get your wife flowers. It’s been two months. Yeah.
Well, yeah, if you live it live close to us. May my kids won’t let you forget about it. That’s for sure. That’s awesome. So you’re teaching your kids though, here is the value of hard work here is here’s the result of doing that hard work. And, you know, your whole platform is built on like, just because you’re down and out, doesn’t mean that you can be the victim. So was there anything other than I mean, the obvious part is like your story is the underdog story. And you can have empathize with people who are going through it. But is there any other reasons other than like the obvious one? why you chose like the empowerment and the underdog movement as your platform dmn from a business standpoint, it was like man anytime I tried to collaborate if any entrepreneur nobody took me seriously I was just said ex convict turned entrepreneur after thought that nobody gave the time of day to and so I was pissed because I was, you know, people were holding me in that box and and I understand I get it, man, you know, that’s the judgment that was made and anybody says they don’t judge people that’s a lie. We all judge people every single person judges people it’s impossible not to it’s how we’re literally hardwired in our brain is to immediately form an opinion of anything or any person as soon as we see them. So snap judgments but it’s whether you hold on to that judgment or not, but so long so that’s another rabbit hole. But long story short, I was. I was pissed off bro and for selfish reasons. First and foremost, because you got to fill up your cup before you fill up any other This is my firm belief but um I started the underdog empowerment podcast and also to to help other underdog entrepreneurs but it was really like everything about it was strategic in that same point. But it’s really a platform for myself to break through that mold and also document everything that I’m learning in the process to help other people along with me. And that’s what it would have started off as and groaning involved in some more things since then.
And you recently had I believe, his name is Mitch Russo. And he’s like, he’s one of the he’s like it correct me if I’m wrong, he like built the like Tony Robbins like coaching platform. And that’s just coincidental. I just happen to recall seeing his name is that right?
Yeah, he worked he partner with Tony Robbins on a quite a few things man and, and he has a crazy story. He was on heroin, real bad. And as in high school, and, and stuff is rock bands, whatever and overcame that as well.
That’s really cool, man. So, now now that you’re past, you know that hitting the six figure mark, that’s always like the, that’s that was kind of where I felt like the, you know what, like, this is actually working. So like if we’re going to dissect, you know, kind of how you look at things. So that’s how you got from where you started to where you’re at now and congratulations, because most people can’t even dream of getting that when they become entrepreneurs. solopreneurs starting their own business. I know for myself, I was I was hoping to hit like, 30 grand was like my goal. So I sold myself like super short, and I’m glad the universe had different plans. Right. So what’s going through your head to get from six figures to seven figures 10 x, where it’s where it’s where the old goal was?
Yeah, man. So for me, I’m glad that I
Was humbler I hate the word humble I’m glad that I was
not arrogant and and and understand the reason why I hate the word humble if you just Google it me it just the way it’s worded I’m like, I don’t resonate with that, but I am very respectful and also it. I don’t I need to find a another word for humble. Like some words like respectful and not thinking that you’re arrogant or whatever, but not saying that you’re like weak, because that’s what humble saying. It’s like you’re weak. But anyways, uh, that was, yeah, um, so I’m glad though that I understood not and not cocky thinking that I know everything because I don’t there’s so much stuff that I don’t know. And Dude, I’m just getting started like, dude, literally. And I feel like that’s for anybody. But there’s also you don’t know what you don’t know. And there’s always so much that you don’t know. But anyways, for me, I’m the visionary. I’m the creative. I’m the marketing guy. I love they get the idea. And in the in the leading of the vision and stuff but systems and operations and and in the integrator oh my god I want to bash my face into a brick wall trying to do that stuff but that’s vitally important for any business is to have rock solid systems and operations and haven’t had that integrator in place right now just teamed up with a with a killer integrator Lee coulombs he’s he’s just amazing but I’m that way he can you know do get all the efficiency and effectiveness of our business the 1% compounds the other or whatnot rockin and I could just go on the track and run you know what I mean? And do my thing you know, and so that’s what we’re working on right now. dialing that in, we just started working together and also be working on finance because for me dude, like to give an example dude, especially us entrepreneurs that have addictive personality that dude and this is true from pretty much any human being but like You You make more money and you start spending more money and for us addictive entrepreneurs we like to bet on ourselves right? And so you make that money and then you start investing in all these other things. And you’re like at the end month like damn, I made $30,000 this month you know, when I’m used to be you know, before I was only making you know, $1,000 or $2,000 a month for this business but I don’t have any money left over where did it all go? You know? And so a finance is another thing that I’m teaming up with Dan Nicholson and separating my buckets and getting that down and so I have no okay this is for salary. Okay, this is for operations Okay, this is for investing. We got the reserves built up and these Okay, now we can make this investment and I’ll make better decisions that way.
Yeah, man putting putting money in different buckets or whatever your system is. That’s such a huge thing because you’re absolutely right man. Like, I look at my life seven years ago, and like I was making like 25 grand is like Manager at a carabas. And like I was I was fine. Like I was getting by. And it’s like the percentage of what was left over. Like I was just fortunate enough to grow up like my mom’s a small business investor. My dad’s a stockbroker. So like, I’ve had this stuff trail down my throat since I was like, born and financial planning degree. So, like, it’s been drilled down my throat so much, but you’re absolutely right, man. Like when things are good. Then it’s like, Hey, you know what? Like, if we made all this money, I should buy like, expensive lunch every single day. For everybody who works for me and I should buy. I should buy cars for all my customers too, because we had a great month and then it’s like, it’s like, why did I lose all my money? It’s like we had a great sales. It’s like, it’s not about how much you bring in. It’s more about how much you get to keep making money. It’s not easy. Don’t get me wrong. But making my hard once you learn how to do it either, right? Right well and then, you know, it’s it’s kind of like that saying like nothing’s going to draw a crowd like a crowd. So like once you start getting successful then people start recognizing you as somebody who’s successful and the things that come alongside it you know, people reach out to me for like collaborations people will reach out to me for different opportunities and like nine out of 10 not the right fit for me or the person who who the idea came from the kind of just looking for like a quick win on on like my behalf and like, I get it, you know, it’s it’s part of the game, but like to get enough wins under your belt, like you’ve got to put in the work, you’ve got to grind it out, and you can be making all the money in the world but if you’re not keeping that money, then it doesn’t matter. You know, I I’d rather you know, work in a company that’s making like a million dollars. A month. And I’m only keeping like 3% right to 30 grand, I’d rather only keep 3% of a million versus 100% of 1000 and have to do all the garbage that comes along with it. Because like, once you’re making more, even though your expenses go up, like you can find places to just shave out. And that’s one of the big things that I’ve taken away from, like entrepreneurship and running a business is like, every month, I look through all my expenses, and I asked myself, is this something that needs to be here? And I look at the budgets, I look at the profit and loss statements, because those things are really important. But like, when things are fine, and you’re making money, it’s like, it’s like, I don’t need to look at that. I’m making money. But then like, things are bad. It’s like, I should have looked at this back when I was making money.
Yeah, but it’s sort of this out, then I’d have an extra, you know, a couple grand right now.
Yeah. And then and then you get blindsided. By taxes and it’s like damn, I would have had another house if the IRS didn’t exist. Ah, but Zach has been awesome having you on the show, man. And I’ll be respectful of your time but where can people find out more about you in the podcast?
Oh yeah man definitely is a podcast so you guys should definitely come over there and check out me and Andrews interview on my show, which will be out really soon as well. But that’s underdog empowerment. It’s pretty much any podcasts you listen, any podcast platform that you listen to podcasts. But to make it really simple for you guys, you can just go to underdog empowerment.com. Right there on the front page. There’s a little button that says subscribe, and you could subscribe to whatever platform you enjoy iTunes, Spotify, Google Play Stitcher, whichever. Hope to see you guys over there, Andrew, thanks for having me on, man. It’s been a blast.
Awesome, Zach. Yeah, and looking forward to your show, man, and take care. Right on.
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