ep 47 Lisa is the author of Girl Walks Out of a Bar, the memoir of her descent into and recovery from alcoholism and drug addiction in the world of New York City corporate law. She is a recovery advocate, frequent speaker and writer on these issues, and the co-host of the podcast, Recovery Rocks.
http://www.sobrieteaparty.com/podcast/
https://www.amazon.com/Girl-Walks-Out-Bar-Memoir/dp/1590793218
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Check out this episode!
Welcome to the self made and sober podcast. I’m your host
Andrew Lassise. And with me today is Lisa Smith, the author of girl walks out
of a bar. And that’s her memoir of her descent into and recovery from
alcoholism and drug addiction. And Lisa, how are you doing?
I’m great. Thanks. for having me.
Yeah, I recall, I forget the the source. We were talking a
little beforehand that one of our previous guests had mentioned your book and
then I saw you on Instagram someone else had mentioned, I think it was part of
like a book club or something. So, girl walks out of a bar, it’s, it’s getting
some rumblings it got on my radar. And so tell me a little bit about your
history. And you know, what kind of got you into the world of alcoholism and
addiction.
Well, I, I grew up in New Jersey in suburban New York City.
I had a nice family. My dad was a judge. My mom was school teacher. They were
not alcoholics, but there was alcoholism and mental health challenges on both
sides of their family. And I grew up I think, like a lot of people who end up
end up in recovery, find themselves early in life sort of that feeling of not
being comfortable in my own skin. I was like a really gloomy, sort of anxious
kid and I found out pretty young that I felt better with food actually, which
was the first substance I abused and sugar in particular, and then I kind of
graduated along the way. I always do well in school, and I ended up going to
law school. And right after law school, you know, I was a big partier. But it
wasn’t a daily thing. It didn’t impact my studies. And then after I graduated,
I moved into New York City and I had a job I got a job at one of the giant law
firms as a corporate associate, a junior associate and it was a as a first year
associate that I became a nightly drinker really to deal with you know, not
Just what I know now was a genetic predisposition as well as an underlying
undiagnosed untreated depression and anxiety disorder. But also, you know, I
had that and then combined it with the crazy stressful, exhausting life of a
junior associate in a big law firm. And it was, you know, basically about a 12
year slide down down that slope and at the end, the last 18 months you know, it
was that creep that step by step that we do that, you know, we justify Yeah, I
know, I’m drinking too much. But you know, you would drink if you had my life.
Or, you know, for me, a lot of it was Yeah, I know, I shouldn’t be drinking at
lunch, but I can get this under control anytime. And you know, all the crazy
silly things we say to ourselves like, okay, yeah, I drink at lunch, but I’m
doing it with other people and also, you know, people in Drink at lunch it’s
not a big do
they do and
yeah then finally came the vino and I would always justified
saying, well I’m not one of those people who drinks in the morning you know
that’s really bad until the day that I woke up with like the worst hangover and
I knew I had to be in the office and I couldn’t make the tremor stuff I can
make the headache stop. And you know, that was the first morning that I drank.
And I remember thinking you know, like this is really bad, but I’m going to be
able to get this under control. I’ll just you know, stop but what ended up
happening the last 18 months of my using were instead of stopping drinking in
the morning, I added cocaine in in the mornings because that way when I had a
drink to relieve my hangover and my tremors and all of that
when I wouldn’t get so sorry.
Okay,
let me go back. We just
cut it right out. Okay.
So then One morning I woke up with the worst hangover,
basically in my life and I knew I had to be in the office to be at a meeting
and I knew that the only thing that would stop me would be a drink. And, you
know, I remember thinking that and that it was going to be okay because I could
get it under control. But instead, what I did was I I added cocaine into this
whole mix so that when I had a drink in the morning, to get out of bed, I also
would then use some cocaine to kind of counteract the effects of the alcohol.
So for people who haven’t had to go through that particular misery, you know,
when I would drink in the morning I get a little bit woozy and what cocaine did
was, you know, wake me back up, make me stop slurring make me presentable to go
into the office. So that was the last 18 months. And finally, one morning, I
was on my way to work and I just became like, overcome with, you know, I
thought either I’d had a heart attack or I’d finally overdose like something
like that. I don’t know, it was a panic attack. And something in that moment made
me decide, you know what, I need help, and I want to live and I need help. And
I ended up checking myself into I had to get a medicated detox for five days.
And I ended up I didn’t know where to go. I know sober references. My doctor
helped me find just a hospital turned out to be like the worst psych hospital
the worst, the worst detox unit in the city. And then when I came out, I went
right back to work because I didn’t want to tell them and so I went to
intensive outpatient at night and I rehab I wouldn’t I didn’t go away. I went
twice a week intensive at night, and then I immediately began going to 12 step
and I got on it. type of precedence to appropriately treat my
major depressive disorder.
So you’ve gone through the gambit of everything was fine. It’s
just a little bit on the party scene in college. And then you kind of have the
justification of that. Well, it’s it’s not that bad. And then, you know, we can
point at different cultures. It’s like, well, it’s acceptable in France. It’s
like, Yeah, but you don’t live in France. This is America. And that’s right. So
you’re running through the gambit of justification. And, you know, other
cultures, it is acceptable and in America, it’s not acceptable, but we kind of
tell ourselves, well, my situations different and I mean, on the surface, it
kind of sounds like you kind of had your stuff together. It wasn’t like Lisa,
the train wreck in front of other people, maybe at home. Yeah, it’s a different
story. And we we do well at dressing up and putting on a good face. And I mean,
you know, working at a high profile law firm, and you’re recently out of
college, it would make sense that you’ve got it figured out and it’s not
actually a problem because if it were a problem, yeah, then you wouldn’t have
all these other surface things. So what was that like? That moment where you
were just you had described you check into into the hospital and you go to iocp
start doing 12 step is it you’re sober right from their or their struggles was
early sobriety look like early first attempts
and knock on wood. I stayed sober from there. I wonder if
part of that is that I did get, you know, the right medication that was
addressing a lot of what I had been, you know, kind of self medicating. I also
think, you know, I came out and like you said, had about six years into
practicing law. It really became as seniors I was getting, and I was doing Wow.
But there was no way it was going to continue to be compatible with the amount
I was drinking. And I jumped over onto the administrative side of the law firm
and stop practicing. And so it was a little bit easier. It was certainly a lot
easier than if I had been inactive practice. To continue going down that slide,
I would have been, I think, discovered much sooner if I were still practicing.
But um, you know, I didn’t like you said, I didn’t lose everything. That was
one of the things you know, that I think also helped me stay sober was that,
you know, I came back, I had a nice apartment, I had my job, I didn’t have to
deal with a DUI, I didn’t have to deal with, you know, having gotten fired or
something like that. So I wouldn’t recommend any of this.
But I wouldn’t recommend losing
me like a strong strong basis to really kind of chase after
it. And also, you know, there had been so many I hadn’t, you know, fully tried
to get sober before. But for so many years, I had said, You know, I had tried
myself to cut down and to do all those things. And I just at the end, I was so
exhausted, I was so sick, I was so wiped out and I was done like I wanted to be
done.
Now, a lot of people, they need those consequences to hit
them so that they can start taking that shift and jumping into it, but you were
more along the lines of you could see where it was heading, and just stopped it
before. before it actually went off track.
Well, it could have happened any day though. Like I always
say, you know, people refer to people like me as having good, you know, high
functioning because I held a big job and had all the outward appearances. And
you know, like, I think the whole idea of being a high functioning alcoholic or
addict is really a myth because you’re high functioning until the day you’re
not right. So I was walking into the office with cocaine on me, if I had been
discovered, one of those days are falling out of my pocket, and someone saw
that, you know, I wouldn’t be so high functioning anymore in that moment, if I
had, you know, car crash, not so high functioning anymore, you know, missing
debt, whatever it is. So
that’s a really good point and interesting perspective. It’s
what everybody sees on the outside. And I think a lot of times people, they say
that they don’t give value to these to the surface level things, but a lot of
times the surface level is, is actually what people are, are seeing and judging
by. So
people can say, well, Lisa’s really she gets drunk a lot.
But you know, I mean, she’s doing well she’s doing a lot of work and whatever.
So Can’t be a problem there and what could be wrong?
Right? It’s not a problem until it’s a problem. And then
it’s and I know for myself after I after I got sober people were like, yeah,
you probably should have been cutting back. It’s like no one really said
anything like here minus, minus like the obvious ones. It was like, Yeah, yeah,
you just like to party you just drunk like, That’s right. That’s you. That’s
your thing.
Right girl walks
out of a bar. What was going on? Before you decided to write
it? Have you always wanted to write a book or what was kind of the thought
process behind that?
Well, I had always liked writing. And I think a lot of
lawyers like writing and I, I was like the kind of drunk who sat on a barstool
and I would be like, I’m gonna write a book, you know. And then like, I got
sober and wrote a book. And it was, it was one of those things where I didn’t I
didn’t plan it. I was I woke up in the mornings, and I would be like, so amazed
that I hadn’t drank the night before and so excited about that. And the story,
the way it started was the story in the detox is really kind of off the rails. And
for some reason, I felt like I had to memorialize that. And so I started
writing it down, like right away. And then I found the process of writing
really cathartic in the mornings. And also I had all these family and friends
being like, Why didn’t you tell us what’s going on what happened in the detox
and that way, I could not just process it for myself, which was huge, but also
hand it to them and be like, here, this is what happened. This is what it felt
like. So it wasn’t going to be a book by any means at the beginning. But then I
as I went along, I was like, this could actually like help somebody and so I
never stopped working. And I so I wrote at like five in the morning for like 10
years. And I loved the process. I love doing that. I took like, you know, I’d
never had I hadn’t studied in college or anything. So I started taking night
classes and NYU and I spent started like going to writing retreats and things
like that. So it was really you know, one of those things a lot Some people say
they find like hobbies or things or whatever in recovery like you kind of get
into something. Some people run triathlons like, that was not me. I started
writing.
And so did the process start to finish take 10 years before
it was published, or
Oh, yeah, just I think,
well, I started yet really took like 12 years, because the
book came out in 2016. And I really started my writing process, like, right out
of the detox, which is why I remember a lot of the details very clearly because
I wrote it down like right when I got out. I also got my medical records from
them from the psych hospital, and apparently, there was bingo and I was not, I
was not interested in playing. I saw the nurses notes. I was anti social in the
detox.
It’s a very interesting nurses note seven ever been on that
side of it, but I feel like document you know what, but there’s probably
someone listening it’s like, oh, she didn’t play bingo like that’s a that’s a
super
they said something like patient refuses to engage with
others patient refused to play bingo it was in there like twice. I was like
really? I don’t remember the bingo part.
Yeah, well apparently
generally like Bingo.
You know what maybe that’s one of the gifts of sobriety is
that you can now participate in and enjoy Bingo.
That’s right. That’s right.
So what has what has the response been to your book? Because
I mean, like I said it came across as a recommendation from a previous guest
and I’ve seen it around. So what’s been the response just overall in general?
I think I’ve been very fortunate that, you know, I think it
has helped people and it got a nice response when it came out. One of the big
things about when it came out was it came out, right. It was just happened by
coincidence or there are no quinces I don’t know. But what it came out like
three months after the American Bar Association had published a huge study on
lawyers and the prevalence of substance use and mental health disorders in the
profession, and the numbers were off the charts. So, there hadn’t been a book
like mine in the legal industry at the time. So I kind of got attached to that,
you know, that my book came out and I got attached. So I started speaking a lot
and doing a lot of things like that. And I get involved in, you know, there’s a
whole as you know, online world of people connecting in recovery and through
that, you know, I’ve really over the over the years, it’s now been out, like,
you know, more than three years, almost three and a half years. And, you know,
so it’s, it’s been way different than what I expected. I expected, like maybe
some people in my 12 step group would read it and maybe some of my friends and
that was Be at. So it’s so it’s really been a gift.
And so one of the little lines you had said in there that
I’d like to dig a little deeper into, you said, there are no coincidences, and
it was kind of like a Oh, well, you know, that’s kind of a that’s a pretty big
philosophy. I know. For myself, it used to be, everything is coincidence, there
is no guiding force on anything. We’re all going to die and nothing matters.
And it’s changed since I’ve been in recovery. So you want to elaborate a little
bit on your no coincidences?
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I do believe, you know, I had never been
a religious person before, but I’d always kind of had this vague notion that
there was probably something, some sort of force in the universe or whatever it
was. So I didn’t come into recovery, you know, with a big with a big feeling
about God or religion or anything like that, but you know, over time, I I did
the 12 steps in the overtime I really did form this belief in a higher power,
for me is more like the universe is kind of a force. And the idea that there
are no coincidences when I think about it, you know, I think about all of the
times that I was wandering around New York City in a blackout, like how did I
not get killed? How did I not get arrested? How did awful things not happen?
How, you know, how did I not just like step in front of the cab at 3am, one
morning in a blackout, all these things that should have happened, I should
have lost my job, I should have had all these things happen. Didn’t and I came
I’ve been fortunate and coming through on the other side, I’ve been very
fortunate in my recovery. And I think, you know, the basically what struck with
me was, I’m supposed to be out here. I do feel like I have a life purpose now
which is helping the next person and I feel like the book In that sense, you
know the art there are no coincidences, meaning that there’s there’s a reason
for stuff and you know, not like I believe we are predetermined. I don’t think
it’s not like I think we have no free will. But I think that, you know, when
the universe sort of has a has a plan, it can happen.
Yeah, I’m in the same boat with you. And one of the things
that a lot of times you’ll see in 12 step recovery, it’ll be the low bottom
drunks with who have lost everything who have tried everything and last stop.
And you’ll also see people come in and out a lot and they’ll try it. Things
will get better they’ll disappear, come back, back and forth, back and forth.
So your experience of not losing everything and your experience of trying it.
Your first go and still like you said, knock on wood. Continue doing what
you’re doing, keep getting what you’re getting, but being Did you feel sort of
Like, your situation was kind of special and unique, kinda like when you were
drinking with? Well, if your situation were like mine, then you would drink the
way I do is it? Well, if you had as much to lose as I did, then you would be as
sober as I am.
Right. Right, right. Well, maybe I don’t know. I mean, I
feel like it is, you know, I, what I stay really cognizant of I think is that
the day I stopped thinking, you know, I can or the day I start thinking I can
coast in my recovery or the day I, I don’t remember how important it is for me
to do all the things I need to do to stay sober for today is the day it all
goes away. And sorry, I do think in recovery, like as anybody puts together,
one day after another after another day, you know, the day stack up and think,
you know, good things do tend to happen. And so that’s not always enough, but
I’m just going to keep doing Doing this and I’ve always been very much like
just for today total one day at a time person.
And what are some of the things that you do just for today
on a if you gave yourself a gold star and you hit all of the things what what
would that look like,
if I hit all of the things I would get up? Well, I do. One
thing I do do every day that I’ve been doing since literally the day that I got
out of the detox is, you know, when I was at my bottom when I was so miserable,
and so spent, I used to like, open my eyes in the morning and I would be like,
Fuck, like I woke up again, like, I don’t want to do this again. I don’t want
to be me again. And so my my now my thinking my thought when I wake up, and it
was even before I did work on higher power stuff. I wake up and I look up and
I’m like, thank you. That’s all I said. I’m just like, thank you. Like I
realized right away. Oh my gosh, I didn’t drink it. Yesterday, I get a chance
at another day, on a perfect day would then meditate, I would then go to a 12
step meeting. I would spend a lot of my time, you know, doing sort of trying to
help the next person. The biggest thing for me that has, you know, I mean built
up my recovery has been service and being counted on and showing up for other
people. Like I think, you know, the hardest thing and, and also, the best thing
I did in recovery was help my dad in his final days when he was dying of cancer,
and you know, that will always that is the most important thing I’ve ever done,
because I was able to be there and do that and take the lead. And you know,
those things don’t happen otherwise. And while you were out drinking, would
that not have been the case? Oh, no way. I would have been sitting in a bar
crying about the fact that my dad was dying and not being there. doored him. So
no, it would have been now it would have been totally different. So everything
was about me, you know, now I get to make it about somebody else. And it’s
huge.
And that’s exactly where I was going. I was thinking, for
myself, it was very much I used to only focus on what I could get out of every
situation. Oh, yeah, how I could manipulate something so that I could screw other
people over so that I could get the upper hand and it never really worked out
how I wanted it to and then right like, I switch it over to focusing on
service. And then opportunities just knocked down my door things that I never
could have scripted could have played life beyond my wildest dreams. When I
started my IT company. My initial goal was to generate $30,000 in one year by
having 200 customers and like At our peak, we had 25,000 customers and did
close to 5 million in revenue. And it’s Oh, it’s like if I had gotten what I
think I wanted, I would have cut myself real real low. Yeah, but yeah, right
open to that because year one, in the same example, we only had like, maybe
5060 clients. So it was like, I didn’t hit the thing that I think that I wanted,
but I kept striving for it. And then, you know, you unlock one thing and it was
random. I’m at a 12 step meeting and a guy is wearing a ravens hoodie in
Florida. And I’m like, Okay, well, nobody wears hoodies in Florida. So clearly,
this guy is new. To talk to him. I’m like, Hey, I like your hoodie. I’m from
Baltimore. He’s like, cool. I’m from Baltimore to and I’m like, cool. I’m going
to sponsor you now. And he ended up being one of my best friends. Someone who
helped me grow the channel. Any huge way and it’s just like these little neon
things. And that that moment could have just as easily been I noticed he was
wearing a hoodie and just kept living my life. And like I look at that moment
and how extremely different things turned out as a result. It wasn’t that
wasn’t my intention. It wasn’t what if this guy’s the guy? ways guy
can right? Right? Right? Right It was. That’s what yeah,
that’s like no coincidence, right? Because you were sober in there to show up
for it. You know, something happens.
So do you have any examples in your life where something
just kind of a random coincidence, God since seemed like nothing that kind of
just turned into something huge in your life?
Um,
yeah, I mean with my book for sure there was, you know, I
happen to be in this writing workshop, and somebody My writing workshop was
friendly with, you know, some agents so I and followed her on Twitter book
agent. And so I just asked like, Who is that? And so I followed her on Twitter
and she put on her Twitter something about a contest for a book deal with a
small publisher, like a writing retreat in Vermont, was having this contest
where you could win a book deal with the publisher and I and I was like, You
know what, it’s the right time I’ve been writing this book for 10 years, I need
to like drill down submitted manuscripts and see what happens. And that was I
ended up winning that contest and that was how I got my, my deal with with my
publisher. But if I just hadn’t been when I heard him say, Oh, yeah, this agent
on Twitter if I hadn’t been like, okay, now I’m going to follow that agent.
Now. I’m going to follow you know, this It’s a lot. It’s much easier to be in
the right place at the right time when you’re sober
than it ever was before.
Yeah, and I think also, maybe even in the past, like if you
were right place, right time, you don’t have the opportunities play out in your
favor as often just because when we’re selfish and only focusing on what can I
get out of this situation? What’s the easy way for me to take as opposed to
what’s the correct way for me to take what’s the way that is most service most
beneficial? What can I look into? For me? It was a lot of, you know, I lose my
job and it’s like, Okay, well, I’ll just go get another one and wherever I end
up, like, what’s this job for? Okay, here I am. I hate everything. Everything
sucks. The world keeps happening to me. Right and then I see on completely flip
side, when I basically like challenge 12 step recovery. And I’m like, I know
this isn’t gonna work. But here we go, I’ll turn my will in my life over, I’m
gonna end up interviewing at this place. I don’t know what they do. Oh, you
happen to do it. Haha. That’s funny because that’s what I’ve been trying to do
for the last 10 years and oh, and you’re hiring immediately now. Oh, okay,
great. It’s like
that, and you pay 20% more than I was willing to take Oh,
okay, and just things stacking on top of each other over and over. And I kept,
I kept winning. And it basically got to the point that, you know, I didn’t like
the whole higher power thing, but like, I just kept winning. It kept working
and I stopped questioning whether or not that there was any science behind why
this is or isn’t working and it’s just like, If I keep winning when I play this
game, then I’m just going to keep doing it. Because I don’t know why I keep
winning, but is a lot better than trying to manipulate my way to win a game
that I hate playing to begin with. It’s just right.
Right? No, you’re totally right. It’s true. And, you know, I
look back and from just from the very beginning, when I would wake up in the
morning and be like, you know, as soon as I had I remember, I think was like,
when I hadn’t drank for like seven days. I’m like, seven days, how did that
happen? And I remember thinking, How did I do that? And then as I got into 12,
step, I, you know, came to believe, like the fact as it was, you know, months
in I’m like, there is no way Lisa on her own, doesn’t drink for, you know, two
months. It doesn’t happen that way. So I feel like I’m getting some sort of
help from the universe. If I show up and do all the right things.
Yeah, I’ve found I seem to find that a lot of people and you
can tell that you’re one of those people that they say like is on the beam and
is active in 12 step recovery and practices, the principles and all your
affairs and you know, all those cryptic cliches without saying what it is, but
like everybody listening knows what it is, but you know, following the Yeah,
the traditions but, you know, when you apply that in your life, I’ve I’ve just
found that it just makes things easier, and things so
much easier
work, and nobody gets mad. I don’t have people getting angry
at me if I make a tough decision based on integrity. Yeah, don’t get the kind
of backlash that I used to when I would lie and steal and try to manipulate
like that would get me backlash, and I get the results that I think I wanted.
And on the other side, there have been times Where I’ve thrown away gigantic
opportunities airports, you know, it’s, this would be a huge win financially,
however, at the expense of integrity, right, justify it because I provide jobs
with it. Yeah, things, things like that, but then turning those down. And then
as a result of turning it down news getting out that I made the integrity decision
to turn down this road. And because I did that, something 10 times bigger and
better falls into my lap that I don’t even have to do anything for they’re just
like, this is yours. I can tell by the type of person you are, that this will
just work out. So tell us the terms. It’s yours. And it’s like, well, that was
way easier than the thing that I think that I wanted, but it’s so difficult
when you’re in it. Oh my gosh, yeah, to make decisions like that, because you
don’t know on the other side. Oh, don’t worry, so and so’s going to hear about
this
the other day. Yeah. And I never trusted that if I stopped
drinking, it was going to be okay. Life was going to be okay, let alone better,
you know, let alone good things happening. I was like, Why don’t know what
people do if they don’t drink? I want to be one of those people.
It’s crazy. Because it’s like, it keeps getting better and
better. And it’s just like, yeah, life never kept getting better, but my life
would get maybe like, I’d have a good week. And then it’s just like, okay,
when’s it gonna crash? And it was like, after a couple months, it was like, why
does my life keep getting better than it used to be? Over and over, like, when
does this wear off? But yeah, it’s kind of like, you know, if you’re putting
deposits into a savings account, and if you just keep adding to it over and
over and not taking away withdrawals, it doesn’t really matter how you feel
about the situation, right? adding to it, it keeps getting higher. And as long
as you don’t take those withdrawals and don’t, you know, take your will back,
which easier said than done. It’s easy on a podcast to say, right? I’ve never
made a decision based on self and all my god. But it always seems that whenever
something doesn’t go my way, my preference, it usually has something tied to it
with making a decision based on self, a decision based on a short term win
versus a long term investment. And that’s really what 12 steps teaches you is
that it’s it’s not about getting those short term wins and whatever you think
that you want in this moment, but it’s a lot more of let it happen, how it’s
supposed to happen, because Right, right, trust me. It keeps getting better,
but it’s very difficult when you’ve got Decades of it not getting better right
here that the only fun part of your life stopping doing that is what will
actually make life better.
Yeah. Yeah you have to be I mean for me at least I was so
miserable like nothing could have been worse than where I was I was that
miserable I was that sick, I was exhausted. I was like anything is better than
this I had what you know we refer to as the gift of desperation.
I think your your situation is cool because you had the gift
of desperation without the obvious reasons for having to do you have the
surface things and that’s just very rare. And that was that was my experience
as well which is, which is very cool because it’s, it’s not the norm, right?
Usually not you come into recovery while still having your job and Things are
just better as a result, it’s usually you’ve been, you know, they talk about
being beaten into a state of reasonableness. And it’s just like, your life is
terrible. Stop doing life this way.
Right. Right.
Yeah. Having that perspective and being open minded to it.
That’s, that’s such a key.
Yeah. Well, to me, it’s like it was. It sounds like it was a
high bottom, but it was really a low bottom because I hated myself so much. I
was so like dead inside, you know, it was just, you know, in it. And like I
said, it was a matter of time, I could have gone into work that day, instead of
checking in and I could have been arrested. You know, I mean, it was way it was
an accident waiting to happen. And it was just amazing that it did not
know it’s great that you caught it before it happened. And
then you know, all the blessings that have happened in your life as a result of
it. And Lisa, I want to be conscious of time, but where can people find out
More about you, where can they get your book?
Oh, sure. Thank you. My website, I actually now have
launched a consultancy for lawyers and law firms and legal organizations on
these issues. And so my website is Lisa Smith advisory with an o.com. Or you
can google we Lisa Smith author it Lisa Smith author also works. My book is on
Amazon. It’s in Barnes and Noble. It’s, it’s around, it’s on Kindle. And
there’s an audible book of it too. So
so it’s everywhere, and we’ll be sure to have show notes
with links to all that. Lisa, it was great having you on the show and everybody
listening. You enjoyed the episode, please rate and subscribe. Leave us a
comment, leave us a review. Really appreciate it. It’s how we grow the show.
And have a great day. Lisa, thank you so much.
You too. Thanks so much. Bye bye.