Shane Ramer is the creator and host of That Sober Guy Podcast. That Sober Guy gives others a platform to share their own stories while creating community and entertainment in a digital and live environment. TSG reaches tens of thousands of listeners across states and continents and has been downloaded millions of times.
Shane has been sober since September 11th, 2013.
04:22 – Shane takes us through his life in 2013 that fostered his current stint of recovery
08:27 – He always knew he had a problem but it wasn’t until he fully surrendered and entered rehab that he was able to turn sobriety into recovery
16:46 – For his recovery to work he needed to work his recovery
19:51 – Shane’s secret sauce is to work it while keeping mentors close and taking control of his sobriety
23:45 – While he has a good amount of recovery under his belt, he doesn’t have it all figured out and he is okay not having the answers all the time
31:06 – Andrew & Shane discuss their drinking/using mentalities as they realized they needed to get sober
33:20 – With 6-years of sobriety, how does Shane protect himself when he’s in situations where there is drinking
Paul Churchill is the host of the podcast “Recovery Elevator” which has been downloaded nearly 3 million times. He is also the founder of Café RE a group that helps alcoholics and those dealing with drug addiction build a community around recovery. He has currently been sober since September 7, 2014.
03:21 – Paul walks us through his story of heartbreak and explains how he turned to drinking to soften his inner turmoil
05:55 – Why become an investment banker when you can open a bar in Granada, Spain and blackout every night?
09:54 – Barely surviving his life in Spain, Paul returns to the States ultimately realizing that his excessive drinking was a problem
11:41 – His message he took from his first 12-step meeting was to convince himself he wasn’t an alcoholic and… game on! He began drinking on and off again until September 7, 2014.
17:59 – Is addiction and alcoholism an illness/disease?
21:51 – Paul reflects on what’s different in his current recovery verses his previous ones – he no longer relies on willpower to prevent him from drinking
24:40 – His sobriety date and the launch of his podcast are pretty close together – how has it affected his ability to refrain from drinking?
27:12 – When did doing a podcast go from a personal venture to a vehicle to help other people?
31:32 – Recovery Elevator’s community asked for meetups and other communal activities
34:18 – If you build it they might not come, so make sure they want it before you build it
37:34 – Paul’s favorite failure
41:46 – Can anyone really ever say, “I got this”? Paul’s answer may surprise you.
48:30 – What’s worse, drugs or alcohol?
54:08 – Paul shares his “worst memory” from drinking
58:00 – You might be an alcoholic if…
59:42 – Paul shares his advice for those who are struggling with addiction and people who are trying to grow their business.
I’ve honestly I’m just going to come right out x rated. I don’t believe you’re setting good goals if you’re assholes not getting tight. Welcome to self-made and sober. I’m your host Andrew Lassise with www.selfmade-coaching.com. And in this podcast, it’s my job to interview people who are not only crushing it and business but have also struggled with addiction in the past and are in long term recovery. Be sure to join our Facebook group, where we help entrepreneurs grow and scale their business @facebook.com/groups/SMCmastermind like self-made coaching mastermind. I hope you enjoy the show and be sure to subscribe and rate the show afterward so you can get notified each Friday when we put out a new episode. With me, today is such a treat. I have Mark Crandall mark is a speaker mark is an author Mark is a podcaster. Mark is a transformational coach. Mark does it all. He has an incredible story to share. And I’m just so excited to jump into it. Mark, how are things going? Things are great. So Mark you’ve been sober since 2007. Is that correct? That is correct. August 23, 2007. Perfect. Why don’t you give us sort of a background of what your life was like growing up and what led to you getting sober? Yeah. So I have like a starting point, my story and that’s kind of where I start even when I’m speaking from the stage it’s, it’s where I start. So yeah, at age three, I was taken by DC if my sister was nearly drowned in a bathtub and my grandmother who we were staying with at the time, my bio mom My sister and I were staying with called the state. So my grandmother was in a cop collar. So she was she had some great concern. So she called the state the state took custody of my sister first and then my mom kidnapped me and took me to New York to try to avoid them taking custody of me. They finally got me I was placed in the same foster home that my sister was placed in. And that’s just I mean, in a nutshell, that that was my childhood, a lot of instability, a ton of confusion. I didn’t know it any of this man. My sister didn’t know it any of this man. There were visits back the first visit that we had back to go see my bio mom was on Christmas I ended up getting handcuffed and locked in a closet. My sister got thrown down the stairs. My sister has cerebral palsy as well just to kind of paint a picture she had casts on her legs at the time she just had surgery. And I just remember being a confused angry Lost little boy. And as a result of being burned with cigarettes and my mom taking off for days and leaving my sister and I an apartment alone at the age of three and five, there are just memories that were burned into my brain that just caused this great confusion. And essentially, that led to me finding drug addictions or drugs and alcohol and quieting my mind, which is all I really ever wanted to do was to shut my mind up so that I could get some relief. So in a nutshell, at seven years old, I had all the traits of a serial killer. I was killing animals setting fires, assaulting people, I was a lunatic little kid and my counselor at the time this man you know, Dr. Atkins suggested that my adoptive parents cliff and Orly file a chins petition on me and children. petition in New Hampshire is a child in need of services. It’s basically you asked the state to come in to take retake custody of delinquent youth and they did and they place me and group homes to get rehabilitated and but what I actually got was educated on sex, drugs and rock and roll. And so when I came out two and a half, three years later, I was more educated, how to obtain substances that would make me feel the way that I was trying to feel any kind of paint a picture of how I thought things went and how most of our society thinks that things ago I when I came out of the first group home or the three group homes when I came out of my group, I was going to send my first thing stay incarcerated. I asked my mom to buy me dress clothes to go back to school so I had like khaki pants and dress shoes and polo shirts and on the outside, I new haircut and On the outside, I looked like a completely new person. On the inside, this Inferno was just burning. And I didn’t get any relief until this kid named Jamie who was like my best friend in high school invited me over to his house to smoke gravity bongs after school. At the time. I had smoked a couple of times, but not like we did this day. We ended up getting annihilated I fell in love with it. I received a great deal of relief internally. And just like I chased it, I don’t need to, you know, beat a dead horse, as far as addictions concerned, but it escalated. I was homeless from 18 to 22 years old. In and out I’ve done seven years of my life incarcerated than to two years in county jail, two years in prison and then three years in group homes and between heroin addiction At this time, heroin Yeager Meister and Ben’s with a mix of cocaine when it was free. I’m a downer guy. So I was really, really always on a mission to shut my mind up. I don’t understand those that want to speed their mind up. I just don’t get it. It’s just me. I mean, I work with them. I you know, I provide intervention services for families, so I know how to navigate it, but I just don’t understand it. Like who wants to stay up all night with a notebook talking about the Great Escape, right? I don’t, I want to, I want to not out and burn myself and, and, and go to sleep. That’s all I ever wanted. So 18 years old. I’m about to graduate from high school and my little brother caught me stealing money from my adoptive mother’s purse. And he screamed into the shower to tell her I punched him in the mouth. She threw me out. I was homeless. From then on. And it just I mean, it got really dark. So you’re 18 to 22 while most kids are away from home, in college, a year away from home, homeless in that same time period, yeah, the painted dark picture, I was sleeping in cemetery kicking doors and at night to feed my addiction, like at 18. I was the kid that you didn’t like when you had a house party you didn’t want to invite because I would set your couch on fire steal your mom’s jewelry like I was a lunatic. And so I didn’t get invited to a lot of places, but yet I seem to find out about them and show up. So I mean, with the childhood that you had, do you feel that there’s any sort of justification like obviously, there’s going to be a correlation. There’s just the stats show that you know, people that grow up in tumultuous situations, usually turn to drugs and alcohol. So do you think that sort of a Not, not to Say, you know, you get to you get the excuse card. But do you think that you know, that’s kind of just sort of par for the course? I do believe that my childhood trauma and my upbringing definitely intensified the craving to get relief. So I definitely do believe that I don’t know of most adolescents at 13 years old that are eating sleeping pills before middle school and playing a game and just see if they could stay awake for English class. Like that’s just. Now I was an absolute lunatic. So I honestly believe that there are some and I mean, science has proved it that the biological your biological upbringing plays a major role in potential addiction. Do I believe in the realm of the 12 steps and the fact that I suffered from Spiritual malady a, you know, a loss of self absolutely subscribe to that as well, like I hated everything and everyone. So I don’t want to get too far into that. But I believe that we play this game of arguing about what’s actually wrong versus really looking for what the solution is. So with all of that chaos going on in your life, what was that aha moment where you were just like, I’m done. Yeah, I made it. I made a face for those of you listening like you would think I would have had it multiple times throughout my story. But my you know, first time I was released from the county jail, like most recovery stories, I made this oath, I wasn’t going to do it again. I found God in the county jail. It was going to go out and I was going to do it was going to be great. I had no idea that there are individuals like living in long term recovery, didn’t even know what that meant. Thought that like recovery was you just got so I had no idea that you know, the actual definition of recovery is like you rebuild your life, right? So, in my eyes, it’s just like, oh my god, I’m sober. I can I’m sober. I want to hit that person. I still want to rob people like what is going? What is wrong with me? And so I didn’t stay sober the first time. The second time, I was released from jail. And, you know, I say that the New Hampshire state prison rehabilitated me because it did and why I say that is because they forced me to get my GED before they would parole me. Had I not come out of prison with a GED. I don’t know if I would still be here. And I’m just being straight. Honest. This isn’t like I’m not getting paid. I don’t have a sponsorship from the New Hampshire State President. Nothing, nothing like that. I just this episode is sponsored by the New Hampshire state prison. I mean, I’m open to having a conversation. My aha moment. I’m two weeks I’m in prison. I’ve almost done my two-year minimum. And as part of my court order, I was mandated to go to this long term treatment center and it was 12 to 18 months therapeutic community. It’s rare to find them in the country now because most of them lost their funding but it was a state-funded facility. Most of the individuals there were court ordered. And you know, when you got in trouble you are washing pots and pans for 12 hours in a day or you’re outside cutting grass with scissors when I left that place look like a golf course. Just to let you know how much trouble I got. It was there it was. There wasn’t a piece of grass out of place. Some two weeks from leaving prison. I used drugs the entire time I was in there. I did not draw a sober breath. I was sniffing antidepressants. We were doing heroin. We were smoking weed. And it was it in prison. It was a mess, right? Yeah, and Prison. It was a mess. It was a constant party everyone was just like playing cabbage and skip Oh, and playing basketball getting high. So I’m two weeks away, I wake up one morning, I sit up on my bunk and I become riddled with fear. I know like your audience, those in recovery are going to have experience with us just riddled with fear. I’ve had these moments in my, in my recovery journey, and I just I sat up in bed and I had one of those What the fuck am I doing moments like what am I doing with my life? And everything? You know, everything flashed before my eyes. So my grandmother saying like, if you end up in the paper again, we’re going to disown you. My adopted father’s you know, telling my little brother to tell me to change my last name because I was a disgrace. Like, everything just flashed before me in this moment, and I just became a golf with fear. And so it’s 5am we’re getting ready yards getting ready to open so that we can walk to the chow hall and I walked to the chow hall and I fire off our Prayer. And I don’t know what I’m talking to who I’m talking to. I’m not even thinking about that I’m not wrapped up in it. And I just say, if there’s something out there, please help me. And I’m two years into prison, you would have thought that this little cry for help would have came a long time ago. But it didn’t. And so I didn’t get any answers, which I got pissed off about, like I thought it was, you know, I literally thought God was like a 24 hour drive through and with 32nd service and, and I’m walking back from the chow hall, and this thought hits me, and the thought was go to the one place in the library you’ve never been, and like, what-what the fuck does I mean? Like, you gotta give me some, like, give me some clear path here. I can’t do that. So I’m thinking about it, you know, to go back to the unit and you had to clean before the yard opened up again, before I could go to the library, which is literally where I lived. Most of the time I was in prison. I love literature. I love writing. And so I just read every book that I could to give you an idea. I read the handle series in three days in prison, which is it’s four books. It’s pretty, it’s pretty, they’re pretty long. So, so that’s what I did. Because then books I got I got an escape from my mind and how I felt. So I walk it, you know, the art opens, I go to the library, I’m standing there. I’m like, What is the one place that I’ve never been? Like, I understand that there’s just one spot in the back of the library where there’s no camera where all the inmates want to do their dirt which the inmates that are still in there probably like Dude, shut up, bro. They’re gonna know. And it was this happened to be ironically enough, the self-help spirituality section. I had not been there. The whole two years that I’d been in this facility hadn’t been there. And I walked back and looked upon the shelf. And there was a book that just stuck out to me goosebumps every time I share about it. And I picked it up because this man who was on the cover and he was wearing this orange and red robe with glasses on indeed a smile on his face like I had never seen before. I’ve probably seen it, but you get what I’m saying when I say like, I’d never seen it like I had never viewed it fully. And this smile I was like, you know, when they say in recovery, like find somebody who has what you want, like for a long time, I thought that meant like a nice car, a wife who had nice fake boobs, like I had no idea. What I wanted was a smile, the smile that this man had on his face. I picked the book back, I went back to my unit, I read three-quarters of it that day. It was a book by the Dalai Lama. And that night I went, took my sleeping medication, wrapped a towel around my head and followed his steps of meditating. And what it looked like was me nodding out on sleeping pills with a towel wrapped around my head. But for the remaining two weeks, the inmates that were in my unit called me the Buddha, which was way better than things that I’d been called in the past. That was my aha moment. That was also the moment that changed the trajectory of my life. What I found Was relief that you know the 12 step slash self help slash realm of the Spirit slash transformational work was what I had been craving but I didn’t know that that’s what I had been craving because I thought like most of our society thinks that it was just going to happen to me like it was going to vicariously my whole life was going to change. But in that moment of meditation, I know I’m preaching to the choir to you Andrew but like in that moment, I got relief. And I chased it like any good drug addict would and I haven’t stopped this August will be 12 years and like I just haven’t stopped I’m an addict for self-help train I don’t believe in self-help but that’s the title that they gave I believe that all things happen from God or spirit or you know your higher self whatever I’m just I’m literally today I’m like a coexist bumper sticker and I’m just and I guess that was what that was the what it was like now We can get into the more of the good, but yeah, like absolutely addicted to it. That’s so cool. So you took that moment of just nothing is going how it’s supposed to go. And you just took that little piece of inspiration intuition, God, whatever you want to call it. And then just completely I mean, I’m sure there have been times in your life where you’re like, you kind of got like a bright idea. And then did it for a couple minutes or a couple days, weeks. So what was different about recovery versus just all the other things that you’ve tried and probably not followed through on up to this point? Yeah, so here’s the thing about and I did this for a long time. So if there’s any of you that are newer, on this journey on this path, like I just want to share this with you and it was something that my friend Tim, who is my art mentor, he’s still a good friend. Friend of mine today he’s one of the first friends that I had in recovery. He said to me, and he said, Mark, why don’t you spend as much energy and time that you spend trying to define God or this higher power? Why do you spend that amount of time trying to recognize him? And I think, like, we get so caught up in what recovery is, for those of us that are in recovery, there’s this fear that we all have that we’re doing it wrong. And so what we do is we point out how others are doing it wrong, and then we pigeonhole ourselves and back ourselves into this corner of what recovery is or what recovery isn’t. And I did it. Right. So what recovery is, to me today is it’s a daily effort, a daily intention of changing who I am. And so I just became absolutely addicted to going inside doing the introspective work getting quiet. I mean, I’ve done It all like I said, I’m a coexist bumper sticker I’ve been baptized. You know in Christianity, I have been named by Native Americans. I’ve done silent Buddhist meditation retreats, you name it. I mean, I’ve walked on calls I’ve done like I’ve done, the weirder it is the greater chance I’m going to attend it the more cult like the reputation the greater chance I’m going to that you’re going to find me there. I love it. And the reason why I love it is because of the effect produced. If this transformational work, this recovery process stopped producing internal relief for me, I would stop doing it. In 12 years, it is like the best hit of heroin I’ve ever had every single time I do it. And there’s ups and downs. Some days I’m like, like yesterday, yesterday I woke up I’m like, Damn, I finished this book. Like it’s about to go live on, you know, on Amazon and on Audible and what am I doing because here’s what’s happened to me in this entrepreneurial journey which we’re going to jump into, is what’s happened to me as I set massive goals. And the longer I do, I’ve only been an entrepreneur for three years, and I’ve exceeded what most people do and like lifetimes, I’m sure by now, because I know a lot of entrepreneurs. And I’m sure because I see it and that, I mean, you’re just stating facts. And I’d love to dig into that a little deeper, but continue with your story. Yeah. And so I set massive goals and I started achieving so much that I guess I became addicted to the setting in the achievement, right? So there’s a there’s this thing happens to us as humans, and we call it a lack of monetary. We call it a lack of motivation, which I’m going to debunk right now. And so, I would set goals even in early recovery even before recovery, and I am a starter for real. I’m like one of the best starters in the game. I come out of the gate. I hit it hard and the At some point in that race or in that goal, I fall off. And we call it a lack of motivation. And so we tell ourselves and others tell us that we lack motivation. So here’s what I found was I kept setting these goals, but what I lacked was the belief in myself to fulfill on the things that I wanted to create in life. And so I would start my mind would tell me know, you’re a horrible person, or maybe it wouldn’t even be that big of a story, but like, it would tell me whatever, and I would stop, it’s kind of like those that go to the gym. You go to the gym for a little bit, you get a good workout, and you’re feeling good. And then you go back the next day, and there’s a bro on the squat rack, and he’s doing 400 pounds and he’s got like, Betty Boop next to him, which if you don’t know that reference, Google it, and then you’re telling yourself you’re fat and you shouldn’t be at the gym and then you stop going to the gym, but then you tell yourself that you lack motivation. You don’t lack motivation. You lack the belief in yourself, like you have negative internal dialogue going on telling you that you can’t So I’ve become addicted to finding the negative internal dialogue and then debunking it, the only way to debunk negative thoughts is to disprove your mind. So I woke up yesterday and I’m like, shit, man, like, what am I doing? Like I wrote a book, do I start my third book? Like, do I? Do I up it a little bit? Do I not do self-publishing? Do I write my third book and then submit the transcript and get a publisher and try to get a book deal? And like, I’m like, What are you talking about to like, you haven’t even like shared the message of this book with the world, which I believe is the most powerful thing that I’ve created. So I just had one of those days. So I still have them 12 years into this thing, and I really believe that and Andrew, you can probably attest to this that the bigger the game you’re playing in this life of recovery, the more those days come Yeah, and I actually heard something I think it was like from Dean grass to see it was something to the effect of, you should just set extremely audacious goals. And the reasoning behind it is your emotions. When you hit a wall, you are going to feel the same way internally on chasing a $500 deal and chasing a $500,000 deal. Like the emotions and the process and the time are all going to be the exact same thing. So if you’re going to be dedicating time towards something, make sure that it’s worthwhile. Now, you and I both know and I’m curious on your thoughts on I know for myself, when I first started my company, my goal was 200 customers, and then when we hit that it was to make it 1000 customers and then when we hit that 10,000 20,000 and so it just kept getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And if I had hit my first goal, I would have sold myself short. Now my mindset six years ago when I started is very different than what it is now. But what are your thoughts on people setting big goals. I love it. I just I think you should I honestly, I’m just going to come right out x rated. I don’t believe if you’re I don’t believe you’re setting good goals if you’re assholes not getting tight. I mean, that’s gonna be the intro to the show by the way I love it yeah leave it in the show make that a show quote and I’ll share it on all no-no like the beginning of the show. Like someone hits play. Oh, that is the clip that will play Sunday. I’m going to take the filter off for the rest of this. So here’s the thing about recovery is we get a second chance in life and most people are sticking their fucking big toe in the water. Not me dude. I’m like, it’s like Mario brothers and I should have been dead because I was like the size of a little turtle. And then I hit one of these question mark boxes and all the sudden I got that green mushroom and I’m like, fucking one up, baby. Let’s go. And I mean, I just I I’m getting excited. Now I just view recovery as this like It’s like an eighth opportunity life I should have been dead so long ago and I’m writing this fucker out. And here’s the biggest thing, the biggest piece and it might make some of you uncomfortable, I would ask you to just open your perspective up a little bit be open to viewing the world and new. Here’s why people don’t set big goals. Because in recovery, there is a myth that individuals in recovery, don’t trust and rely on God if they don’t want to be wealthy. If they want to be wealthy, they don’t trust them rely on God and that’s bullshit. God put wealth on this earth for us to prosper as much as him now, the shady side of wealth comes from how you generate your wealth. If you’re doing that dishonest Lee, if you’re doing that through manipulation, deceit, then I don’t think that that’s proper. I do what I do to generate wealth to push my message out into the world even more. I want to share this because I mean, Andrew can see it, but you may not be able to unless he plays the video which I think believe he’s going to, like I have eight letters behind my name. So Mark Crandall, lm SW LC DC, right so I got my master’s degree in social work I’m you know, I’m a licensed therapist I practice here in Austin. And in the social work field, it is the undertone was that you should make Justin just a little bit more money than your clients. So essentially, you should stay broke and I debunked that. And I’m like, I don’t believe that like why, why, but I don’t chase money at the same time. Just like Andrew stated with his goals. He changed. He was chasing clients. I chase impact. So I want to empower, right? So this year, I want to impact the lives of a million people. Well, I don’t want to get into it on the show. But I have a spreadsheet broken down of what I actually need to do to impact the lives A million people. So you have that giant goal and you have it broken down into baby steps. So it’s not just I’m going to wake up and impact a million people, man, it didn’t happen today. Why didn’t it happen? But you’ve got incremental steps. as to if I do this small step, that’ll be one step closer, and if I do this small step, you’ll be one step closer, is that kind of how you’ve been structuring your larger goals. Yeah, so for every two copies of this that sells I’m giving one away and he’s show in his book embrace your past when your future Yeah, so it’s not and I’m not even like I’m not even playing dude, my sales funnels built out in this thing. Like I’m not hiding it. I’m not doing the See that’s my funnel. It’s right there. And it’s just an opportunity for anyone that wants to go further to actually work with me and jump into the purpose chases Academy and like get going right but like I’m not hiding it like I believe in the power of God and my higher self or universe, whatever it is you believe in. I like Like I said, I’m a coexist bumper sticker. So if it’s good, amen, I set ridiculous goals, like just I mean, I wrote this second book in 42 days, and it’s the best content I’ve ever written. And this second book is sort of built off of your first one, correct? Yeah. So then the first book was premature. And that took me about six months. It was premature. So it’s my story. And I kind of it just ends because I wanted to get it out into the world and my buddy Brian, who’s a three-time TEDx speaker and was to his horn. He read my book, and he was like, Mark, like, you need to finish this and I go, What do you mean, he’s like, I read all the way through to the end, and I still feel like you should have died. He’s like, yeah, you lived happily ever after, but you just ended the story. So I like went back. I reworked the original story. Which was eulogy of childhood memories. My first book, I reworked it, I changed a bunch of things, I added some more stuff. And then and part two, it’s literally how I went from a view of the world that all these things in my past happened to me to how they happen for me. And I literally give the reader step by step directions to how they themselves can overcome that. And I get into it goal setting circle of influence, the mindset, like most people think that they stopped doing goals because they lack motivation. But I really outline there’s actually a, there’s a graphic in there an image showing individuals what actually stops them from completing their goals. So you start a goal, you get the momentum, your mindset kicks in or it kicks out and it tells you-you can or you can’t and most people stop because they don’t have the circle of influence around them to reach out to them to Hey, Andrew, man, I and I did this yesterday. I’m having a fucked up data. bag, my mind is telling me that I’m not good enough again, it’s telling me that no one’s gonna like this book, it’s telling me to go do something else. Like it’s telling me to take a job. And that’s when Andrew says, dude, fuck that you come way too far. Let’s go right here, watch this video or do this thing and then I’m back on. And it’s so interesting that you talked about the circle of influence. And one of the things it’s, it’s one of those pretty well known, I think it’s Jim Rome quotes that, you know, you’re the average of the five people that you associate with the most. And I know for myself, and just trying to achieve more and achieve more and achieve more that and I’m not saying this narcissistically or from a place of ego, but I eventually found that I got to a place where, while I’m trying to bring a lot of other people up, I couldn’t really relate with a lot of other people. I mean, just statistically, there’s not Many 30 something-year-olds that own multi-million dollar companies like that’s just statistically there are not that many of us. And so, you know, when I was younger, and I’m college student aspiring to be a financial planner, like, it’s very easy for me to find 30 other people that are in the same boat, like I go to my finance class and we’re all doing the same thing thinking the same thing acting the same way. So once I got to a higher level, I’ve discovered that I needed to be intentional with the exact people that I want, and I wasn’t going to find them by just popping into and I mean, I loved the group. I did it for several years, but NPI and more people are more familiar with a B and I. It’s a networking group where you can only have one person from each industry and I met a lot of really great people. It was really really good eye-opening, but I When I went there, I was hoping Well, I could find other people that own giant businesses that want to be growing more. And what I came to realize is that when I wasn’t finding what I was looking for with the normal like spray and pray, I came to realize that when you want to achieve a very specific very big thing, you need to know exactly what you want to do. Your goal shouldn’t be. I’m going to show up to this networking event and see what happens. It should be. I want Mark Crandall on the self-made and sober podcast, because his story is incredible. And I’m not going to bump into him without putting some legwork behind it. lucky enough. I had the connection through Jesse Harless us on the third episode and really cool backstory with him and how we got connected. And then I asked him for introductions to people that He thinks are high achievers. So it wasn’t just a level of, hey, I want to do better. Why isn’t anybody better than I am? It’s, I need to find exactly who I want. And then that motivation that rah rah rah, where Oh, yeah, I’m going to have all these great guests on the show this in that, like, I need to be intentional on exactly who I want. I need to be intentional on who I want in my circle of influence. And most people just live their lives. I mean, look at you know, when you were a kid, were your best friends, anyone outside of your neighborhood? Like Of course not. Because you showed up to school and people in your neighborhood, the same background. you’re attracted to them, but the statistical odds that those four people are those five people that were your best friends in kindergarten, the odds They are actually the people that are going to be pushing you through and you all happens to live within a quarter mile of each other like it’s just not. It’s just not real. But so many people want to just show up to things and just have it fall into their lap and I think what you’re doing is so cool with setting the intentions of I am going to impact all these people now dissect that break it down, how do I influence all these people? What steps do I need to take what action needs to happen in order for me to achieve this because so many people and this isn’t knocking the bn eyes and the networking groups, but a lot of people when they show up to that if you think about it, it’s Hey, show up to this group. help other people but you will get leads falling into your lap without trying to do anything here are easy leads here. Easy sales. Instead of building out a funnel, you know you’re not going to get thousands of customers impact millions of people by showing up and networking Well, you have to be intentional, you have to build it out. And I kind of went off on a tirade but it’s tough to see so many people with this just idea that things are just going to magically happen without really putting in effort. So I mean writing your book and six months of it and the negative self-talk and the reaching out to people to get it to to get you over those over those mental hurdles. After you had your first one finished. And I’m I’m like in the rumblings I actually have a call with someone tomorrow maybe this will be like the oh man remember he talked about that briefly that But no, no promises but conversations in the works on a book but for your first one. took six months. Second 140 some days you said 43 was it? 4242? Okay, it was at my editor and afforded to so in 42 days. How was your mindset different after you had accomplished it one time going into the second one? It’s just like, it’s just my mind is bullshit, right? So it’s, yeah, it’s, here’s what’s happening. Here’s what happens, it stops most people and it’s going to go very deep, especially for those in recovery. But like three-quarters of my disbelief in myself stems from me comparing myself to Andrew. Right so like, I’m not going to have his successor I’m not going to have their success right. So I’m not going to do it and it’s just like most people never take action but it’s the only way to overcome internal dialogue like negative internal dialogue is to take action to disprove your mind so you know, he’s talking about circle of influence. I set a goal in January, I wrote out a list of individuals that I wanted on my podcast. And they’re all coming on. And number one on the list was Hal Elrod. He’s the author of The Miracle Morning. And now the miracle equation. You know, another one was my favorite Olympic lifter, john north. Another was my favorite hip hop artist apathy. And they’re all coming on my podcasts. They’re all scheduled, but with, with how, when and I’m telling you with apathy, he’s like, he’s been following me before he replied back to my dm that I sent him on Instagram. Right? So he’s been following the work that I’m doing and I had to stay grinding and stay consistent. He watched me it’s like yeah, this summer, dude, let’s do it. But with how what kept coming to me and meditation was get him on your podcast, but you can’t ask him on. And so I was at his I joined his mastermind, right because I need to place myself in front of these people that I want to be mentored by that I want in my circle. Was that his mastermind he’d heard about the work that I’ve done in another mastermind, pulled me aside, had a conversation with me and he said, Is there anything that I can do for you? And I wanted to be like, Yeah, dude, like, you’re the last person and then I can rewrite my list of people that I want on my podcast. But I didn’t. I was like, Nah, man, I just want to be in your world. And fast forward two weeks later, he asked me on his podcast and then invited himself on the mind. And of course, I didn’t say no, cuz I’m like, Yeah, dude. Oh, totally. There’s a spot for you. I mean, I’m out there a little bit. I’m like, four weeks out, but like, you know, Totally, yeah. That’s spring into like, I got Jay Pappas, on who I just scheduled. And for those of you don’t know who he is, he’s the author of the book, the one thing right, he’s coming on and like the more like if you want to level up your life, you need to start. Like you need to start playing. You need to start playing a bigger game, but you need to be around higher level individuals, especially those that are in recovery. Playing in the sandbox is what I call like going to meetings or being around other people in recovery that’s playing in the sandbox. I did something unorthodox when I moved to Texas. And I jumped out into the world of entrepreneurs here and a lot of them aren’t in recovery. A lot of them go to the bar and they drink and they do networking events at the bar and like I’m spiritually fit my recoveries in place, so I’m able to go hang out with them. And as a result of getting out there and seeing these people, like I have some amazing relationships today, but you gotta it’s what I was talking about, like most people in recovery to stick their toe in the water and talk about how cold it is. I just jumped the fucking like, Whoa, my nipples are hard. Let’s go. You know what I mean? Like one of those. Just like, yeah, I want more. I mean, society teaches us though. Play it safe. Do the smart thing. Get a government job, don’t Rafal Fathers don’t go against the grain that have that end, okay? You don’t have to be the person that like prides themselves on like hurting others and things like that. But it’s just it’s such a small mindset. And because everybody has that mindset, everybody will they’ll cosign it. Hey, I was writing a book and I gave up. Oh, yeah, well, you know, publishing is difficult and you don’t really want to go into that world. You know, you should do go back to working for an asshole boss that you don’t like, make him rich, and come home and complain about your job. That’s really what you should do, because that’s how our society lives. So we’ve got people who are afraid to tell people the truth and say, Hey, you quitting on this on this goal that you set for yourself? This is bullshit. And if you’re going to achieve anything in life, you have to follow through on it. Like when I started my IT company, I was in my living room by myself. I had, I had no clue what I was doing, but I was still doing it. And then when I made my first hire for somebody in it other than myself, I didn’t know what I was doing. But I still did it. Because I saw the bigger picture, that if I can scale and grow this, that we can impact so many more people, especially in an industry that’s got so much negative stigma behind it. So it’s just, it’s one of those things that I get passionate about, with people who are just, you know, you should really play it safe. Like all those people that were playing it safe when the government shut down, like what was safe about that move. In my company in the last six years, hundreds of people have been hired and fired. And like at zero point was I afraid that one of those was me. Like I choose my destiny. I set the things in motion, but with that comes extra stress and I’ll Lot of people, it’s just easier to sit back. Just wait for things to fall into your lap complain about it. And since 90% of the world is doing that anyway, or at least in America, there’s no reason to have ambition because ambition is why would you? Why would you jump into the water? Like, what if it’s really cold? Who cares? It doesn’t matter. Do it? Because nothing fun is happening with dipping your toe in the water. I love that you hit on that and it’s so real for so many people. So if someone’s trying to make the jump into entrepreneurship, what path or what resources would you recommend them just for starting out? Just start I mean you’re if you’re listening to this podcast, then you’re starting right and, and then it just and then in here, I’m just going to tell you like what you’re going to experience is the opportunity to walk through a shit ton of fear. And I’m telling you like when I went to there’s a, one of the first networking events that I did was this thing called the internet marketing party and it’s in Austin and none of them are sober, right except me like I was the only one drinking a taco Chico, which is like fizzy water out here. It’s just walking through that fear. And sticking your hand out like one of my best friends here in Texas. We were at a transformational workshop. And he stated my wife sent me here to make friends and I walked up to him and said, Hey, my name is Mark, I’m your new friend. And he’s like, he’s my boy. He’s a hustler. He’s an entrepreneur, like is just like he grinds his face off. He’s a real estate wholesaler. He’s not sober. Right? But he’s not. He’s not like me when he drinks, you know, but he’s turned into one of my closest friends. And it’s going to be a series of walking through fear. It’s like the first BNA that you went to like, one of my first assignments for my first business mentor was to hit every big meeting in Austin, there’s 70 See, I think that’s a Much better approach, then just going to want like, the idea behind it, you know is that you build the relationships get people to know like and trust you. But in all honesty, I mean, I’ve shown up and that that was actually the strategy that I did when I moved out here a couple months ago was I just went to all of the big chapters in the area. And I got, I got deals from it, and I still I stayed connected with a fair amount of the people too. So it’s like, you don’t have to just keep showing up to this group over and over and over, hoping for something to happen. Like there’s a million other opportunities. So go on, what else would you How would you suggest someone say they’re about to jump into being like a life coach or something like that? And I know you don’t like the word life coach, but I’m using it in the way that most people would understand what I meant. If I said life coach, as opposed to a train formation coach. Yeah, I mean, just you. I mean, you’ve listened to some of my stuff, you know, my thoughts on that. It’s just such a flooded industry with those that are not equipped to actually do what they’re doing. But anyways, I would say seek, find a mentor. And as Andrew can attest to, I’ve spent some really some bought whole tightening, I’m not a money on mentorship, and getting coaches and guides. And last year, I spent $75,000 on my personal development, whether that’s coaching or masterminds, or retreats or workshops, and on and on and on, and this year, I’m like in a pause with spending for those. So all I’ve done this year is I’ve done one conference and then one mastermind so do you view those though as expenses or are they more investments, their total investments, I mean, for one, they’re right off for my business. So the greatest The greatest write off that I have coming out of my businesses are things that I’m doing to increase my worth, is how I view it so I’m not one like I’m not one is going to go by like new, you know, a new sports car, I would much rather invest, invest 1020 $30,000 into a mastermind that I know, in joining that mastermind my circle of influence is going to increase. That’s just how I view it. And every time I take those actions every time I go to a conference and which I find on them, I mean, Jesse, you had him on your podcast, he’s like the, the guru of sticking your toe in every pool that that there is, at one time he was doing more shit that he could keep track of, but like, look at where we’ve excelled to, but most people don’t want to invest in themselves. They don’t want to hire a coach. That’d be my recommendation. Like get a coach, get a guide, get a mentor, get somebody who you could relate to what they were saying. And you’re going to pass Like if you want a good coach like you’re going to pay, it’s going to your bottle is going to get tight, you’re going to be like, Well, why am I going to pay that? Well, it’s you’re not only getting their expertise and their guidance and their push, you know, their support their encouragement and then challenging you. When you hire on somebody like this or when you join a mastermind and you enter into a circle of influence, you now get their circle. So you’ve just leveled up. If you want to continue your life of going to meetings, and vaping. And you know, I’m not shooting on that. I’m just saying like, if you want to continue that talking about how you’re hustling, and you’re doing this and you’re doing that, but you’re really just working a nine to five and when you lay your head on your pillow, you know, there’s something more out there but you just can’t seem to get your finger on it. If you want to continue that life. Go ahead. I mean, there’s millions of people doing that on a daily basis. But then there are the types you know, and Andrew is interviewed few of my Close friends already there the types that they’re we’re just going against the norm. I’m just like out to see what I can actually achieve in this life. And what I’m finding is like I can achieve all kinds of things, anything. Yeah, the biggest thing though is that people don’t want to get uncomfortable. They just want to do what they’re used to doing. There’s a pretty big parallel between, you know, the guy who he’s 35 years old living in his parents basement, and they’re not forcing him to get a job. They’re giving him food, shelter, spending money, what is his motivation to get out and actually get a job? There’s no pain behind it, and they’re like, Oh, you need to stop being lazy and it’s like, you’re rewarding. inactivity and I’m not going to get super deep into it, but all the system With unemployment and things like that, it’s like, will keep paying you until you go out and get a job. And it’s like, so if I don’t get a job, you’ll keep paying me. I choose that, you know, it’s the rewards aren’t in line with the actions that you want people to take. And so entrepreneurship and starting something big, it’s so uncomfortable. And my coach is the one who is like, you want to increase your circle of influence. You need to give people the opportunity to share their message on your platform. You’re not going to just increase your circle and have a whole bunch of people that are high achievers, if you don’t have something to give them. And in my mind, I was like, Well, people should want me in their circle because I’m so great. And he’s like, well, it’s the other way around. You should want people to want you in theirs. And it’s awesome that how Elrod is on. He’s on your list he’s on mine as well. Wink wink make the connection. I’m working on it regardless. But actually, Anna David, who wrote the Miracle Morning, or she co-authored the Miracle Morning for addiction recovery, actually, is going to be on in a couple weeks. So I guess couple months with the queue of guests that we have on when it’ll be released. It’s really cool though. Like, I was literally on a coaching call last night with my coach. And I was saying, I was excited about this show and about some of the other guests that are coming on in the future. And I he was like, you know, who would be you’re just like, out of this world guests. And I was like, I’ll never get like a Robert Downey Jr. And he’s like, with that mindset. You’re right. And you need to smash that. That’s everything that we’re talking about in this episode to like, you hear things a million different times, but then like, how it applies to your life at that exact moment. It’s just like, Oh, yeah, If I want that to happen, then I need to put that into the universe. I need to accept that it can happen. And I need to make the moves to make it happen. And I can’t just sit on the sidelines, you need to create leverage. So it’s all about leverage. It’s like Robert Downey Jr. is going to come on your podcast when you know it’s going to benefit him. Exactly right. So I’d say I’m going to give this plug the one thing that I would suggest anyone listening to this podcast do is read Dale Carnegie’s How to Win Friends and Influence People. And I can give you a cliff notes version right now, people don’t give a fuck about you till you show that you give a fuck about them. So, like, I practice the principles of recovery in my business, and like I show up on Andrews podcasts. I don’t know him from a hole in the wall to bring value to his audience. At the end of this podcast, he in the back of his mind is going to be thinking What can I do for Mark? right and so I do this all day. Every day, I just show up for people and bring them value. And their thoughts are How can I bring value to mark? And that’s just how we grow. So when I bring value to Jesse or when I do, I don’t want to talk about the leverage that I use to, to get into house world. But you know, Andrew probably saw the gifts that I presented them, right. And it’s like, it’s about leverage. It’s about it’s literally about continuing to show up for people in such a way that they just want to help you. You don’t need to use manipulation you they just want to be a part they want you in their circle because you’re like, so powerful. One of my coaching clients I had been before I even started doing small business coaching. He was just my friend. And he was like, hey, you’re just like some dude. And you’ve got like, all these companies and all these employees and all these things going on, like I mean, I’m just a person to what’s the difference and Dude, his thing is so cool like he’s a handyman and he’s making decent money probably approaching like six figures just, you know, doing this in that for a whole bunch of people getting recommendations and just kind of growing his business and I just introduced some ideas of, you know, if you want to run a business like here is how you can actually run in scale a business and I get texts from him. I taken him on as an actual client, and I get texts from him like every week, he was like, Hey, man, I made $7,642 this week, and I only worked five hours. Thank you. And it’s like that it’s not just like a fake testimonial like, that’s the life that he is living. Now as a result, I was doing it for free until he basically was like, Look, man, like, I need this to be a formal thing. The exchange of money. I know that this is an investment and that’s how I can know that I can keep you on board providing value and guidance into my life. It’s a beautiful thing and like, yes, people just they think of money as this just terrible thing and oh my god, money, it makes everything so bad and money. It’s just an exchange. It’s just energy. It’s just pieces of paper. And whatever connotation you associate with it, that’s your own insecurity or that’s your own point of view on it. So in wrapping up, if someone’s listening to this and they’re struggling in recovery, what would you say is the best move that they should make in order to get to level up get the green mushroom on their recovery? Get around individuals that are chasing this thing, like you know, it’s just like those that I see that are struggling are either isolating or they’re hanging out with people that are bottom feeders if you will, and that’s not like that’s no firing of shots, right? So fire your sponsor, get a new sponsor gets Somebody who’s like you sit when your bottle gets tight when they walk into a meeting or you cop resentments because you’re like, Damn, I’ll never dress like that walk into a meeting like whatever it is like there’s a reason why they’re they have swagger why they’re they have confidence because they’re chasing more and it’s like, I mean it goes much beyond recovery right? So there are people living nine to five lives like I just don’t I don’t want to I love this life I love being an entrepreneur I love right to give you an example right now I’m gonna look at my calendar. I have three calls this afternoon I could cancel them all. Why cuz I’m my boss. Do you know what I might do after this call? It’s sunny out I might go to my pool. Probably won’t. But I might you know, I mean like, you have the choice to Yeah, I just do what I do. What I want is someone that’s working a nine to five. Ask them what would they get to do in the middle of the afternoon is going in the pool and option Like it’s not even an option. And it’s and I don’t want to fire shots. I don’t want to fire shots at those that are working nine to five. So but what I want to ask you or I guess leave you with and my closing thoughts as Andrew is wrapping up here is like why are you working the nine to five? What’s your next move? Like, start thinking that? Why are you working that job? Like what is your next move? Like what are you working for? Most people don’t take action because they don’t know why they’re taking action. What is your Why? Why do you want to do this? Why are you doing this, you get clear on that and your whole life will open up. I think having that clarity on the next move is such an important thing. And again, it comes down to being intentional and knowing what you want to do, why you want to go there. And I just think if more people were aware that there is so much more out there than just grinding it out nine to five. And I know it’s like, well, Andrew, you employ a whole bunch of people who are working eight to four and then four to midnight. Don’t you want all of those nine to five? And if they’re willing to settle and work for me, absolutely. But I literally do leadership training where I preach this exact thing in my own company on Thursdays, and I do a life a live meeting, we put it on our Facebook, private group facebook.com slash groups, SMC mastermind, and we go over that like if you want more, I’m not going to get mad if somebody quits because they’re pursuing their dream and most of the time people get fired, because they’re just not a good fit. personality wise, what we were hitting on before. If you’re not pushing towards something, you’re not going to achieve anything. And everybody is okay with just being mediocre. But people like Mark, I mean, you have every excuse in the book to just live a life of waste. And people can justify, they could cosign that, Oh, well look at his childhood and he spent all those years in jail like, of course, he’s going to be doing nothing with his life. And you’re just a living, breathing example, that your past doesn’t define you. It is about being clear about what you want. And being intentional about going there and doing the actions and not just sitting talking about it. It’s such a pleasure to have had you on the show mark. How can I How can people find you where they can find your book? embrace your past when your future gives us the whole shebang, all the plugs, go to my website, Mark randall.net and you can get four chapters of my new book. Every everything that I do is there the purpose chasers podcast is on my website. Everything that I do is there so all of my purpose chasers stuff, all the purpose chasers stuff purpose chasers, swag, purpose chasers, everything. Mark. It’s been such a pleasure. Thank you so much, and have a great day man. Thanks for having me. Thank you so much for listening to Self-Made & Sober, be sure to join our Facebook group @facebook.com/groups/SMCmastermind like self-made coaching mastermind. I hope you enjoyed this show and be sure to subscribe and rate the show so you can get notified each Friday when we put out a new episode
There’s nothing wrong you can say to someone who’s ready to get sober, and there’s nothing right that you can say to someone who isn’t ready to get sober.
Welcome to self made and sober. I’m your host Andrew a CS with self made dash coaching.com. And in this podcast, it’s my job to interview people who are not only crushing it in business, but have also struggled with addiction in the past, and our long term recovery. Be sure to join our Facebook group, where we help entrepreneurs grow and scale their [email protected] slash groups slash SMC mastermind like self made coaching mastermind. I hope you enjoy the show and be sure to subscribe and rate the show afterwards so you can get notified each Friday when we put out a new episode. Welcome to self made and server I’m here host Angela cease. And with me today is Bill Somerville bills the owner of dawn patrol digital, she’s the lead generation company that focuses on real estate and insurance professionals. And he’s not only crushing it in the marketing field, but he’s also been sober since 2014. And Bill Happy belated 35th birthday and welcome to the show.
Thanks, man. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me on. Definitely
pleasures all mine. And you’re quite the world traveler. I saw you just got back from Vegas.
Yes. One of my least favorite locations in the world actually, I I grew up right outside Atlantic City. So casinos are like not a very big boohoo attraction to me. And you’ll find out like a lot of my not so good years revolve around the Atlantic City area. So for me like going to Vegas. It’s just like, you know, I go there for business. And then I’m out on a red eye soon as I can leave.
I was there just just the other day and I guess a couple months ago, but I didn’t have the same experience. When I went the first time maybe like eight years ago, I went with my dad and and I was in I was blacked out in a poker tournament. I forgot that I played in and one in paid for the whole trip. Yeah.
Nice. So let’s get into it.
I did i think i i poker afforded me like, six years of doing the not right thing. So hey, you know when you’re good, you’re good. Right?
So so let’s get into it. Could you tell us about your journey? And what led you to get sober in 2014?
Yeah, absolutely. So we’re just talking about this a couple seconds ago, like, I never know what I’m saying in the beginning. And I think that’s, I maybe should have prepared, but I know that the guy that took me through the steps like, Hey, you know, you’re talking about your sobriety and your journey, it was no reason to really prepare, you just kind of show up and let God take the wheel and go from there. So I didn’t prepare anything. And my experience, it’s just my experience, man, you know, what led me to get sober in 2014 was the fact that I was probably going to die if I didn’t, you know, I like, like to drink, like a lot. And other things, but mainly, you know, alcohol was a big part of my story. It led me to make a lot of poor decisions, you know, when I was actively drinking, and, you know, it led me to a lot of misery. When I wasn’t drinking, you know, I just didn’t think that there was a way to, to have a life that you could be sober and enjoy. And it just didn’t make sense to me like going to the mall or going grocery shopping, or just doing anything normal, not, you know, three sheets to the wind just, I was like, wow, that’s, you know, that’s worse than death. You know, until that, that becomes the truth until like, your drinking takes you or your your you know, narcotics or, or drug abuse like takes you to, to that level. And in 2014 like that’s that’s kind of where I found myself man is you know, I just got sick and tired of being sick and tired, I guess is what they say as much as I dislike the the one liner phrases of 12 step recovery. It’s, you know, there’s a lot of truth to it. And yeah, I did, I just got sick and tired of being sick and tired. So my options at that point were to be dead, or to try something different. And I decided to try something different with the promise that if it didn’t work out, well, for me, I would just pretty much be dead. So I didn’t really have much to lose. And I think a lot of people that come in 12 step programs, like that’s pretty much it. It’s like, Well, I didn’t really have shit to lose. I don’t know if I can curse on this or not. You guys bleep it out.
Yeah, you can do whatever the F you want.
Awesome. I’m gonna take my shirt off then. Wait, you sell Yeah. Audio, right.
was like in his in the office, where and he was like, I’m cutting off Phil, us his head with a chainsaw.
Dwight put your shirt back on.
All right, I’m gonna keep my shirt on. But for an extra $2 will send you the video footage of this.
Behind the scenes, I’ll set up a membership group where you get to watch it. Yeah, that’d be great. So, so drugs and alcohol bring you to your knees. What’s what was the last straw? What was just the, I can’t keep doing this anymore.
But since it’s since it’s getting close to Mother’s Day, you know, and we talked about our mothers before this, I think was just like, really, you know, letting my mom down. Man. I know, that sounds so corny. But if you knew this woman and you knew what she went through,
and how tough she was, and just, you know, just what a phenomenal person that she is.
I just hated letting her down man. And there were times where I would get better. And like we do like most of the real alcoholics do, we get better. You know, it’s like, we’re up, we’re like a rocket of upward mobility. And then all of a sudden, you know, we, you know, come in contact with this fallacy of we’re doing this ourselves, you know, we’re, we’re self made sober people, you know,
and we’re fixed in ourselves. And, you know,
we think that we can take a drink, like, Hey, I did all this fixing. And, you know, maybe it’s cool. If I just, if I just have another one, maybe it’ll be different this time. And then that would happen occur in my brain and like, like an idiot, I would blackout, uh, you know, all my previous experiences with, with drugs and alcohol, for the this concept of, you know, I could do it right this time. And then, you know, this allergic reaction would happen, like they talk about in 12 step fellowship, where my body would demand more drugs and alcohol, but wasn’t drinking and, you know, we’re using like, a normal person, and then I’d find myself, you know, busted it out. And, you know, like, my family would be disappointed again, man, I just, I just didn’t want to continue to put them through that. Because even though I couldn’t stop drinking, and using, I did love my family. You know, I love my mother, I love my father, I love my sister. I love my aunts, and uncles. You know, I just had a lot of love people. And my, my change point was, when I thought to myself, like, maybe I should, you know, not be in this world, and that life would be easier for my loved ones. If I wasn’t there, you know, it’s, it’s a tough spot to be in. And, you know, a lot of people will go down that road, you know, out of selflessness. But, you know, that’s, that was my changing point, man. Like, when I found myself in that state of mind. It was it was a rough state of mind, man, you know, I don’t wish that upon anybody. But that’s, that’s what it took for me to get sober. You know, it wasn’t homelessness I’d seen that wasn’t, you know, my family forced me to go to a treatment facility because my family had experience with addiction. I’m come from like, an Irish and Scottish family, man. So we’re no stranger to drinking and addiction problems. This didn’t want to hurt anybody else anymore. Man, that was probably my turn around, is when I hit that.
So 2014, you’re getting sober? Is it easy at first? Or are you struggling getting getting down? What’s the beginning look like for you?
was it easy at first, I guess my just my experience with it was, was that it was easy for me, right? Because I had waited until my life was such a massive mess. Like I got sober at 30 years old, right? I didn’t want to go into the rooms of these 12 step programs, I didn’t want anything to do with it. Like I knew what happened in those rooms. I knew people stop drinking, and, and getting stoned in those rooms. And I didn’t want that I wanted nothing to do with that. As a matter of fact, I was like, keep all that in those rooms. And I’m not going to walk in there. And so that was my only option. So for me, I got a hold of, of a guy who just told me story. And I was just amazed at his story, because it sounded a lot like my story, right? And then he started telling me about what happened in his story, which sounded a lot like what happened to me, like, Hey, I don’t want to hurt anybody anymore. So I figured that, you know, maybe I would just take myself out of the equation so that my family would be better off. And then Then he told me another part, which kind of blew my mind, it was the part that I didn’t really believe in too much. It was a part of, you know, him not having a drink for the past five years. And I was like, that’s, you know, that’s impossible. Didn’t really force it down my throat. He didn’t really tell me this is how it has to be, you know, I approached him and I was like, you know, you’re cool guy. How’d you get so cool. And he’s just like, how I’m not really that cool. This is how I did it. And he was he was a fun guy to he didn’t when I approached him. He wasn’t just like, oh, you’re sick. This is sad. He’s like, look at this sick bastard right here. Look at this guy, you know, like us is a
He had a smile on his face. He hugged me, and you know, I wanted it. That’s really what happened is I got exposed to this in a very good light. And, you know, he worked me through a 12 step program quickly. It wasn’t like, Hey, take all the time that you need to do this. It was Let’s go now because I don’t know if you’re going to survive like the next couple days. And that’s what it was. It was like you’re drowning. You need this. You know, your arm is lobbed off, you need to have a tourniquet and you needed applied like an hour ago. But the next best time to do it is right now. So let’s do it. You know that that’s what happened. He ripped me through the steps like it says, in a particular piece of literature of anonymous program that we want to talk about. It says we launched into a course of vigorous action, you know, and that’s exactly what we did. No, it wasn’t like he did take your time. It was like, dude, now go make it happen.
Yeah, that’s one of my biggest gripes against. And I mean, you know, everybody’s story is different. Everybody’s journey is different. But like, I’ve heard people picking up year medallions being like, yeah, I took my time. And that’s, that’s what worked for me. And I mean, I can’t say to whether or not something works or doesn’t work. But I mean, if you’re sick, should you take your time and getting better? Or, you know, the whole diseases centered around you want instant gratification? What is the downside to getting the instant gratification the way that it was originally intended to be? And then you help other people. And then the altruism is part of what keeps you sober, longer, longer down the road, not this well. You know, you’re, you’re sick, and you need things immediately. So to stop you from getting your instant gratification, we’re going to make this as long and painful as possible. Yeah. And, and I mean, I see the merit of like, you’re not going to get this immediately. You have to want it, you have to earn it, but at the same time, like, Okay, what if you die before? before that happens? It’s just Well, he didn’t want it bad enough. And I, I don’t really subscribe to the kind of cop out that has been going around for a while of, well, if someone dies or someone relapses, it’s not your fault. They weren’t willing. And, okay, there’s an ounce of truth to that. But at the same time, like, if your responsibility is to help somebody else, how is that just not part of part of the deal? Like it just, it doesn’t really make sense to me how, how we’ve kind of twisted it into that, and nowhere is that really talked about in 12 step literature. I mean, they say if he disappears, like, don’t go hunting him down, like find someone who’s willing. But but that idea you? Oh, yeah, it took me a year to do my fourth step. And that’s what I needed. Now. That’s Bs, man, you didn’t need that. You just felt like chilling and doing absolutely nothing. Because anybody who’s been sober can tell you like, you can do it in an afternoon. And like, done forever, like, you keep going on. And I mean, it’s like an ever evolving piece of work and stuff. But like, it’s, it’s an afternoon, it’s it’s not a several month program. It’s an afternoon, like, worst case. A weekend. Yeah, like, if you’re, if you’re extreme, but like, it’s a couple hours. That’s, that’s what it is.
Yeah. And, you know, like, for, from my personal experience, to again, like totally blessed, not just for the sponsor, I had, it took me through the program, but also some of the men that he introduced me to, like, they, you know, they laid it down for me, they said, like, you know, the reason we’re taking you to the steps is not to help you men, so that you can help other people and through helping other people you will have helped yourself, that’s how it was laid out for me is like, we’re ripping you through the steps, you know, basically, like putting a rifle in your hand and sending you out to the front lines, because, like, that’s what’s going to keep you alive. You know, it’s not going to be sitting back here in the rear, like, this is where you know this where people die. So you want to get up front and helping people. And that’s man, that’s what we did. I mean, I can remember being in a, you know, being a being 30 years old man, and living in a house with eight other guys that were on the same path as me. And I’m college educated, I’m honorably discharged from the United States military. And here I am, like, in a house with a bunch of dudes riding a bike. And it’s just like, if that’s not humility, like I don’t know. I don’t know what really is. But that was humility for me. But I was also extremely grateful. You know, so you said, kind of come full circle, you said, was it difficult for you? I don’t think it was difficult because I knew that if it didn’t work, like I was going to go with Plan B and plan be was like the checkout, right? So I really did, you know, go 110% with it. I screwed up a gazillion times. I did, you know, a men’s wrong. I, you know, did. I did a bunch of things wrong, man. But once I found out that they were wrong, my sponsor told me that they were wrong, or my sober support network told me they were wrong, I fix them. You know, and I think I conduct myself the same way. You know, in business, too, is like, I, you know, I would rather have like imperfect action or in the military, we call the violent action, just just do it, just get out there and do it and f up and then we’ll fix it. But you know, better to do that than to sit on the sidelines and just constantly map something out, and then just never do it, which I feel like, you know, there are a lot of people, you know, in our, like, age group, even like in their 30s or younger to that, just do that, man, they just sit there and they’re just, they’re just watch, don’t do shit. You know? And yeah.
Or they’ll spin their wheels, just going in circles something to the effect of, Oh, well, I got 70 new followers on Instagram, like, I’m really building my business. And it’s like, no, you’re not How much money did you make? Like that’s, that’s the, you know, okay. There’s something to be said for, for having people following you and liking your page. And that’s okay. Part of part of the plan. But, you know, no one’s no one’s really no one’s buying groceries with likes. Yeah, no one. That’s not actual currency. That’s, that’s a representation and our reward for spinning your wheels playing on Facebook. But end of the day, if they’re not turning into paying clients, you don’t have a business, you’re just playing on Facebook and getting likes on a page that you call the business. Like, that’s, that’s what a lot of people do. And it’s crazy to me, I was he didn’t become a client. He wasn’t in any position to, to really move forward. But and I forget who the person was. But he basically was like, Oh, yeah, this influencer followed me on LinkedIn. And I was like, okay, so like, are you working out a deal with him or something? He’s like, no, but now he’s going to see my posts. And I was like, I don’t do business with people just because I see their posts. And like, what, that doesn’t mean anything. Someone followed you on LinkedIn. That’s, that’s all that that means. Like, you know, if you reached out to him, and you messaged him, and he messaged you back and you guys sat down, got coffee, like that would be moving the needle, but he was under the impression that, well, this guy follows me on LinkedIn. Therefore, my business is really taking off now. And that’s the delusion A lot of people have. Yeah, so what would you say is a better barometer of actual success in a business, just the action,
I think you can gauge success of a business by going to your client base, right, and seeing how many people that you’ve helped, you know, kind of like, you can gauge the success of a human beings life by looking at how many people that they’ve loved on and assisted. That’s how I gauge it, you know, go to your customer service aspect of your company and pull out, you know, all the hate mail and bullshit and everything, come through it and see how heavy the flow is. If it’s super heavy, and you’re not doing anything about it, then your business sucks. And it’s not going to be around for long. But that’s an area of my company that tend to live in, you know, it’s like, you know, feedback, feedback, feedback, like, we don’t have 100%, retention rate, surprise, anyone that’s listening to this, you know, we’ve lost clients, we’ve identified people that we thought would be a good fit for our service, but it turned out that they weren’t a good fit for the service. You know, and we’re learning the business has been in an operation for like, six or seven months, I think. And like, two of those months was just me solo, which I don’t even know if you want to count those months, but we can because I spent a lot of time awake and and you know, and working. But I think you know, what, what gauges a business, if you want a good business, a sustainable business is like, Hey, man, like, How good is your your product to your clients? Like, are you just shoveling bullshit, you know? Or are you doing the real deal? I mean, like, likes, who cares about likes? That’s never done anything for me, you know?
Yeah, I think it’s just kind of the culture that were brought up. And people, people believe that it actually means something. And then so many people believe it that when they hear it, other people saying, and it’s like, yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s, and I’m sure like, I’ll get an email from someone being like, you don’t know anything. I’ve got 10 Million Likes, and I made a billion dollars last year. I hate your podcast, love Bill Gates. So, so I mean, I’m, I know that you know, your world, in the lead gen marketing space, it’s saturated with people that are mediocre at best. So what separates you, especially on the clients, when you knock it out of the park, and like you said, it’s impossible to have 100% retention, but when you knock it out of the park, what’s separating you from the 10 million other people claiming to do what you do?
I think it’s just, I think it’s, I think it’s our, I don’t think it is I know it, I know, it’s a process, I know, it’s the customer service aspect of it I and I know it’s the front end to is it’s the fact that, you know, we’re not, we’re not a company that’s going to ever have thousands of people that we’re working with, or more of, let’s stay a boutique level, let’s, you know, hand hold and give a ton of value to our clients in exchange for, you know, some, some valuable feedback and to grow the product. I mean, you know, guys that know me know that, you know, I’m not the type of person that’s going to walk around with a Rolex in a Ferrari, right? Like, that doesn’t mean as much to me as having meaningful conversations, you know, with people turning my my, quote, unquote, clients into friends, like, that’s the stuff that fills me up. That’s the stuff that I like, you know, I don’t get a good feeling when I can’t get a client results. You know, I hate it. Because it’s not their fault. I look at it as my fault, like, What didn’t I do, and sometimes it might have been just like, hey, the sales training that I have for my guys was off, and we identified someone as a potential candidate for our program, who was not a potential candidate. But that’s not their fault. It’s my fault. And if I can continue, and I can teach my staff to continue to take accountability for themselves in their actions and their decisions, you know, I think we got something good. But if I can’t, you know, then, you know, I don’t have a company, I just have like an unchained dog just running around the yard, like, just going insane. So, you know,
I think that’s what separates me is just like, our company culture, you know, how we look at our clients. And then you know, the processes that we have to ensure that they’re successful. I love that you touched on the accountability aspect, because there’s so many times where companies when they fail to perform which it can happen, I mean, that’s part of any operation that has human beings and human beings are susceptible to error, be it intentional, unintentional, best intentions, bad intentions, whatever the case is, but taking that ownership, as the top level as the top of the company, to say, you know, each if I’m doing everything in my power, if my employees are acting a certain way, if my clients are getting a certain type of result that I’m not trying to get for them, like that all rises and falls on your shoulders as the owner. And yeah, you know, I wasn’t there that day, and this person did this. And they should have known that they shouldn’t do that. And as as tough of a pill as it is to swallow. Like, it all rises and falls on the leader of the company. It’s not the employees, it’s not the customers. There’s bits and pieces here and there. But I mean, if people are responding a certain way, and that’s not the way that you want them to respond, it’s most likely somewhere in the past, they have behaved that way. And it was either not addressed. So it’s a passive aggressive build up, more it was addressed, not followed up on. And I mean, I’m far from perfect in this area, just like as I’m saying, and I’m just thinking like, okay, yeah, my staff like, he yelled at, like three people yesterday for some stupid stuff that happened. And it’s like, yeah, Andrew, and whose fault was that? But it’s, it’s true, though.
It’s ours, man. It’s the it’s the ugly side of, of, I guess being an entrepreneur and business owners like, you know, just extreme accountability, you know, that they have.
You were saying you’re listening to Jocko Extreme Ownership while you’re in the gym. And how’s that hitting you?
I thank God every day, like I talked about my mom a lot. Like I’m gonna go ahead. And if you haven’t figured out like big family, I’ll talk with my dad. My dad was hard ass. This guy was getting hard ass man. And I would I very much did not enjoy his presence for a long time and life until I became an adult. And I remember him, you know, dropping me off just being like, Hey, man, like, you know, good luck in school luck in college, like now, you know, I’m still your father. But now we can be friends. Because like, I gave you everything. You know, I gave you everything I could, it’s up to you to take the rest of the way now, man, you’re You’re a grown ass man.
But he you know, so hard ass man. And like, he definitely 100% like drove home in our brains. Like, you know, like, take ownership. I take ownership for sure. You know, it’s not anybody else’s fault. But yourself. You know, like, like pony up for it. You know, and growing up in this little town and in New Jersey, you know, I, a lot of the guys that I grew up alongside of me, like, that wasn’t their households men, but for for me, it was just like, I grew up tough. It was tough. You know, it was you know, take ownership for it. You know, like manual labor did a lot of manual labor. It was the options were manual, or, or read your math book, you know, I did a post on that, like, probably like six months ago, I just thought that shit was normal. And I was telling somebody about it. They’re like, that’s not normal. I was like, I’m gonna make a post about it and kind of like relay, you know, the, my dad into it and the type of person that I am. And and people are like, wow, it’s amazing, man, you know, but he would say it all the time. He’s like, Listen, I’m going to leave you one day, and you’ll either be the best ditch digger in New Jersey or be the best mathematician is like, but you’ll never go hungry. And I hate that shit. And I hated it. But like, getting into even the military and like seeing, you know, like that other people were were saw to a degree, you know, and I was just sitting there like, man, all these dudes can yell at us. Like, they can’t like slap across the face or hit us with a bell or, you know, crack me across the face. Like, this is awesome. This is gonna be so much easier than
what a vacation
is gonna be easy. doing push ups and running anyway, like, that’s, that’s normal day and like, you know, and the yelling is nor that’s how we communicate at the dinner table. Like, wait, like, you know, I can’t get anything thrown at me or slapped. And you know, I don’t anybody on this on listening to this. Don’t ever feel bad for me. I deserve every slap across the face that I got, you know?
Definitely a button pusher for sure. Like, don’t do that. I’m like, Well, I’m gonna do that. I’m going to f1 do that. Excuse me.
yeah, that was a tangent. I’m sorry. I went Oh, no,
no, it’s all good. Are there any other audio books that have had an influence on you like, Extreme Ownership?
Yeah, so I messed it up between. So I used to have a commute. But now, you know, one of the great things about working for our company is that you know, we have remote location so you can work like I said, see a lot of my travel stuff. I like to work in different countries like to go all over the world and Islam, every new laptop is fired up and me and my entire staff can conduct business, behalf of our clients, but you know, Tim Ferriss four hour workweek was just an absolute Game Changer to me. The only other book that probably changed my life as much as that’s the blue one that you and I both know about.
You Michael Gerber.
Good friend of mine, Tim. Staci, if anybody knows him, he’s also a business owner, he recommended a book called The E myth revisited. Sir. And I it’s so grateful that I read that before I started this endeavor because it really like changed my mindset from like, a worker being mindset which my business would have failed that that was what it was to, like an entrepreneur is like, Hey, man, like you have to get outside of your business and look at it as a whole. And like, realize that you’re gonna have different divisions of the business, you know, marketing, sales, film and account management, billing human resources, and like your job, you know, going to at one point, you’ll be in those divisions, you’ll be the only one. But it’s important for you to develop the standard operating procedures and then put bodies into those standard operating procedures, make them like a living standard operating procedure, so that your company can can grow otherwise, you’re going to stay for growth. And, you know, I talked to a lot of entrepreneurs today and try to get them to read that book. And I know people hate to read nowadays, but I mean, like,
God, that saved me so much headache, because if I was still doing everything by myself right now, I would be losing my mind. Yeah, there’s, it’s crazy. Like the
mature your recommendations are literally like on my, I have on on my site. There’s the URL, it’s Lucy’s coaching. com slash RX r ACS. And it’s got basically like a laundry list of audio books and recommendations and things like that. Tim Ferriss four hour workweek, I would probably point like, the book I recommend the most. And Michael Gerber’s e myth revisited, as also that in the same sentence, what to do, I recommend the four hour workweek, and E myth revisited, and for different reasons. And just, you know, for people that that aren’t familiar, basically four hour workweek, it’s the idea of, if you’re very productive you can do it’s not just oh, well, I worked for four hours, and then chill the rest of the day, but you find where you’re productive. And then you put energy into that, and delegate the rest of the Bs, which goes hand in hand with the myth of have systems in place for other people to do the BS on your plate, so that you can do the things that are important to growing your business. I know for myself, and like, that’s one of the biggest things that I touched on, when I’m working with one on one with like business coaching with clients is getting drilled into their brain that you are a business owner, you are not the guy who fixes computers, you’re not the guy who builds websites, you are a business owner, and your product is that stuff that you used to do, and you used to trade all of your time so that you could get money. But now you’re in the business of trading money for other people’s time, and making sure that you have enough money to sustain other people to be holding on to their paychecks, as well as keeping your clients happy. And you’re no longer playing the game of how do I make more money work more hours. That’s, that’s the mindset we’ve been brought up and you’re supposed to get a good job. And you know, you work Work hard, you can work overtime and get time and a half, but you’re capped at the number of hours in a day. But when you play the role of a business, this owner and you can multiply, okay, I have one salesman and my net revenue is like $500 per week off of one salesman? How do I make more money? If I hire 10, more salesman, and I have all the processes and everything in place? That’s a good way to 10 X, your revenue, but you still have to be able to scale? And how do you scale? You have processes in place? How do you have processes in place, do your job and write down what you do, and then give it to somebody that doesn’t know how to do your job and have them follow along? That’s been one of the best ways that I’ve done training is just, here’s a piece of paper of what I think is a good enough description like an 8020. Like, here’s 80% of you know, I don’t have like details like line by line by line by line by line of every single nuance. But the idea of here is the big picture, follow this. And if they can follow it, for the most part, gets rid of it gets rid of the issues of why didn’t you reply to this email? Oh, I didn’t know I was supposed to supposed to reply to the email. Well, we have in place when there’s an upset customer that emails, here’s how you handle it. accountability, like all these things, and it’s kind of obvious when you hear people talking about it. And I know for myself, I I knew that idea. But I was kind of in the mindset of this isn’t actually a real business. It’s just me fixing computers in my halfway house. So so so it was, it was a different mindset. And that’s that’s all I knew. So when you started dawn patrol, were you just like, I’m a business owner right off the bat? Or was it was kind of a learning experience to be like, I’m doing all the work. Now how do I let go some of this responsibility and let other people handle some of it.
So I, again, man, I
everything that I’ve, I’ve done like how I know I’m doing the right thing in life is by how, how much I have to wrestle with the idea of doing it. Now. That doesn’t mean like, Hey, you know, everything in my life I know is right, because it’s easy, because it’s definitely not easy, but it’s like wrestling with the idea of like going down a certain route. Like if I have to wrestle with something a lot, like wrestle with, like, you know, like, Hey, is it good for me to go here? Should I be living here? Should I be living with her whatever the case is, like, if it’s if it’s a wrestle, I know, it’s not good. And if it’s, you know, if it’s fluid, but I’m like, hey, there’s a lot of work in front of me, like I go for it. And that’s kind of like what it was like, with my business mentors and relationships that I had as well. So funny story, the guy that
the guy that I got into marketing with initially, you know, was like, was like a,
about a decade sober. Right, like I, I submitted a form online to be part of a community of, of marketers and and business owners. And the last question on the forum, said, I would have the opportunity to pay to get into this group was What’s the hardest thing that you’ve ever done in your life. And I put, getting sober, was tough, right? It’s the hardest thing I ever had to do. And I immediately got a phone call. And the guy called me and say, Hey, I just want to know, like this, this guy know, he’s been sober for a decade, and I was I was totally sold. At that point, I was like, take, I was like, I need to get in this group, I need to be in it. It’s a Visa card, let me know when you’re ready. Like, let’s let’s run this. And then just like meeting him, and like meeting other people that, you know, we’re 10 steps ahead of me. And we’re willing to give back so long as like, I was willing to do the work. And then also, you know, as this like, group of guys together, like turn around and provide value and like, get my time back and be like, Hey, guys, like I’m split testing company, or I’m doing something with marketing, or I’m trying something with my operations centers. You should do it too. It wasn’t difficult for me because I was still at my previous company data lot. When I was reading the book by Michael Gerber. Right, the E myth revisited. So I’m reading this E myth revisited. I’m watching these guys actively carry it out, you know, and I’m talking to guys like in tech deals that are like, hey, in six months or less, I could totally be removed for a company and have a self sustaining. I’m like, What? How do you do that? You know, because Tim Ferriss book was the first one I read. So I was very interested in you know, automating companies. And, you know, we use a lot of virtual assistants, you know, in Central and South America, and in the Philippines, who are phenomenal. They’re phenomenal, guys, and we pay them well, overhead and really good wages, for where they’re at the world. It works for us, and it works for them. And, you know, it’s, it’s great, man, it wasn’t, it wasn’t difficult for me to remove myself, because from day one, that’s the goal. And it’s, it’s still the goal, man. It’s like, now that I’m the CEO of the company, I’m trying to figure out how I can become the CEO and what’s even entailed in the CEOs job, you know, and then I’m trying to figure out, like how to, you know, boost myself out of my company, because successful guys, it drives me nuts. They’re not just like, Hey, I’m the business owner, this, they’re like, I’m the business owner, 15, friggin businesses, I’m on the board of directors, I’m doing this, I’m doing that you’re just like, how are you able to accomplish that, like, when you know, I have one job, I’m a sales guy, I’m, you know, totally comp sales guy. And I’m, you know, I’m working 70 hours a week, because I’m just have this fire me where I got a sound. And they’re like, you need to find someone else to do it for you. Or you need to learned to teach guys to do it, or you need to learn, you know how to manage guys and build the business off of it. So for me, dude, it wasn’t difficult, because I knew that was the goal. From day one, it’s like I wouldn’t be able to accomplish what I wanted to accomplish without without help. So wasn’t tough for me.
I guess that’s so cool that your experience coming into it very different than a lot of people that you understood that you have to run a business and not just own a job. Like there’s, it’s funny, you know, that the dream job when you’re a kid, it’s like, oh, you should be a doctor or, or a lawyer. And I kind of think about it, it had like when you were saying like, Oh, these people had like four company or 13 companies, you said I was like I only have four. But, but like the idea of a doctor or a lawyer. I mean, you’re trading your time for money. And I mean, if you if you own a practice, and you have other people working with you and I work, one of my clients is a doctor, one of my business coaching clients. And when I introduced the idea of you should build it up and have people work for you train people think of what you’d be able to accomplish with this time and this time, and he was just like, but when I make less money, and then we sat down and did the math, and I was like, No, you make a lot more money, and you do less work if you run it the right way. And he was just like, but that doesn’t make sense. Like, if I am not the one doing all the work? How is it possible that I make more money, and I was like that is the secret to all business ever is like you can make more money, if you just put in the effort to make a good system, and make sure that they’re good enough metrics, you can make sure that your system is still working well, and that your people are still working well. I mean, you had touched on like, you travel all the time. Like I travel all the time. And when I see how much you travel, I think Man, I wish I could travel as much as like it.
I only show you all the glorious stuff, man, trust me, there’s a lot of like, in January, when we were I mean, we blew up almost our company levels 360%, in less than 30 days, it was it was excessive. And I’m in Bali, and I’m 13 hours ahead of us and most of our business is going to be you know, located in central or eastern time zones, right? And it was, you know, so I’m working from 6pm at night, till seven o’clock in the morning, I get off at seven, I go sir, I go eat breakfast, ride my scooter around a little bit until I’m just like, Yo, I need to go to sleep, sleep through the days. And then on the weekend, you know, we would travel places and do fun stuff. But you know, like, I was grinding in in Bali, I was grinding out big time, hiring people developing the SAP and again, like imperfect action. You know, we would make SAP we’d run the VA through it, they would jack stuff up. We did I know. It’s not your fault. It’s not your fault. It’s our fault. You did exactly what we told you to do. Now we know we need to tweak it. And we tweaked it and tweaked and tweaked it until you know we got it to a nice sustainable point. And we got the right people in it. We’re always looking for, you know, additional people. But But yeah, I mean, we got it to a nice sustainable amount. And it was it’s been, it’s been awesome, then I’ve been able to kind of step away more and more and more to like a higher level where like, you know, we’re not now we’re, you know, we’re heavy on marketing. You know, we didn’t do too much marketing initially. It’s funny, I tell everyone is like, yeah, you know, we’ve scaled up, you know, Facebook ad agency, to, you know, over six figures a month and we didn’t have to, you know, even spend two pennies on boosting an ad that I had to do it. And I was like, outbound dialers, you know, sales guys, that’s pretty much what we did sales guys, and then organically through Facebook. Like, wow, that’s, that’s crazy. But now we’re starting to like, get into that realizing like, yeah, maybe you know, we should do something besides just outbound harass people.
Yeah, well, there’s, there’s something to be said to for having more legs on the stool to keep it up. Because I know, just in my own experience, like with, with rush tech, like, we’ve reinvented ourselves probably five different times of just completely different marketing. And you know, what works one day, you can just wake up the next next day some algorithm changes, something is on the news, something can just shift overnight. And I hate seeing the businesses that are the say like, Oh, well, I don’t need to market my business, all we do is word of mouth. And that’s perfect. And, to an extent, like, that’s great that you’re getting that. But what happens when just say you don’t close the next round of leads, right? Your your referrals that came in, are you going to keep hitting up your existing clients, say, hey, I need more and more referrals. Because this is my only point of getting new customers. Sorry, we’re out well, so then you’re just out the end, you can’t get any more customers. And I mean, I’ve seen it happen countless times like one algorithm change and Facebook, and something that was converting at, excuse me something converting at like a dollar a lead jumps $250 a lead because now you can’t use this word anymore. Or this image now has text in it that violates this policy. Like it’s so fragile, that if your marketing is dependent on just one thing. And one of the things that I wanted to touch on. So I was reading through some of your posts and how you kind of you you walk the reader through it, I’m assuming you do email marketing with with this copy, I’m just going to assume that, but you do something along the lines of like I saved $1 on on water by not getting bottled water versus tap water. And now I’ve spent $30 on bathroom accessories. Because I tried to save $1 and ruined everything. That’s why you should hire somebody to do your marketing for you. I’m going to assume like the meta, like, that’s your marketing of your marketing is how you tell stories and like relate them.
Yeah, pretty much man. I like to I like to tell stories, and people will say like, Oh, is that a, you know, true story, some of the stuff and which is a fair question. And my response sometimes will be like, Dude, it’s true. You know that it is a story.
That’s true. You know, you got to peel it apart and figure it out. But that story was absolutely true. You know, I was there with a good friend of mine, Pat. And I think we really had a nice place and they call in Costa Rica they don’t call it tap water because they know they can’t say that shit. They’re call it house water. Do you want this this bottled water in the house water and then my house water’s fine. You know, so I have this house water at this fancy restaurant and I’m like, I can handle this ram spending all this money on water. You know, I’m spending all this money on food. But the one thing I can’t instead of spending $1 on water, I’m like, That’s ridiculous. There’s no I don’t drink bottled water at home, drink it out of cup, you know, like, We’re fine. And, and we went to this they call these roadside eateries they call them sodas, and coasters. So if you ever get a terminology soda, and by the column, while runs, I’m probably butchering How to say that, but it’s basically just like a roadside place, you get a meal, it’s cheap. And, you know, you’ll get some local fair there, it’s really good. My rule of thumb has always been this, that there’s a lot of people there a lot of locals end. A lot of non locals, like it’s probably safe. I that’s one of my big things. And then like make sure that the person is not collecting the cash, I mean, with food. And then, you know, just make sure a lot of these places they’ll, you know, they’ll cook it in front of you, you know, so this hit all of the things is it was going to be okay. So I you know, I got Coke, and I got a glass of water and I was extremely thirsty, pounded the water. Everything was fine. And then we got on a speedboat from haka in Costa Rica to St. Theresa. And like halfway through this speedboat like I hit my stomach and we were in the middle of the water. And I was like, Oh, and I was very uncomfortable, very uncomfortable. And so we hit the first app, which is Montezuma, and then we took a bus from Montezuma, Montezuma to St. Theresa in Costa Rica. And, man, I was tough. It was really bumpy road, it was not a good show for me or for my friend Patrick. And we had to go see doctors, which I found out I totally got shim Sham on that deal, because I brought this like bullshit looking prescription to the pharmacy. And these girls just laughed at me that like, yeah, like he could just came here and got this shit. Just tell us tell us, right? So it’s just like this dude in an office. I knew it was so shady. Because there was no one there. It was just me. He’s like, I want to take your blood. I’m like, dude, you’re not taking my blood. I’m like, you know what’s wrong with me? I’m like, give me the antibiotics. And he’s like, well, he put like a step is so my heart. I’m like, What are you doing pen? Like, I drank the water. I’m sick. I can’t stop shooting, I want to vomit all over the place. I’m like, just give me what you give people for travelers diarrhea. And if it doesn’t work, like I’ll come back. So he’s like, all right, fine. It’s $100 USD, though, to see me because I fight. Oh, so I got shamed out of 100 bucks, but and then I got the antibiotics. And then I was good to go. And the next one,
Hey, you know what, though, it’s like one of those things where someone may be like listening to this, and like, Oh, I love that story of like saving $1. And how all these things happened. Like, I want you to write my email copy for me. But people people really do connect that when you tell a story. And then you can related come back to what what the people like what your product is what your services like in in our companies, drip emails, they when people sign up, we send them emails, and it basically it’s like, kind of pulling, pulling back the curtain of like, behind the scenes of, hey, you’re here now in 2019. And this is what the company looks like. But if you were one of the brave souls that was trying this out five years ago, like this is what happened. Like, I was so afraid that people would find out that I was the only employee and when people would call and be like, Are you the only one that works here? I would just say no, we have like dedicated account managers. And that way you got like the best service possible. And they’re like, Oh, that’s a great idea. And but now, like we do have dedicated account managers as a result of back then I was just trying to like, put up this facade that I was bigger than I was and, and now it’s like, Hey, you know, people really liked that. And so we took that idea and ran with it. And now even though we’ve got this many people working with us, now you still get that one on one experience, just like the people used to have, but you also get it with all these extra resources. And all these new features and technologies changed over the last five years. So it looks nothing like it used to. But people people they like those stories, like I get responses from the emails. And I think it’s funny that they like reply to, to automatically send emails, and they’re like, Great story. I love this. I love your company. And like I just, it’s not too often that I’ll send an email to a do something that I know is automated. But what I’m starting to find in actually getting, like authors and I’ve got by the time this episode will get aired. I’ve got like a ton of authors with like big followings and stuff coming up on the show and like getting through to them. Sometimes it’s just like, I’ll sign up on their email list and then just reply, because like, someone had to write it, like, someone sometimes replies to the autoresponder and like, I’ve gotten in touch with people that way. And they’re like, Hey, man, like, sure, like I’ll, I’ll send them a message on on Facebook, send them a message on LinkedIn, and reply to a to an automatic email, like join their email list. And I’m getting in touch with influencers that are just like, way beyond who I thought I’d be able to get in touch with. And it’s like, you know, you just got to kind of think outside the box. And I think, though, coming back around, like the telling of the stories, because I always try to incorporate, like, Hey, your message is to achieve XY and Z. And you can achieve that through this platform. And that’s, that’s really one of the things that I’ve like, really discovered in the last, the last really like two months, like, right around, like when, when I had first reached out to you, which is about two months ago. And here we are, but like, right around that time, it was like, how, how could I reach people that just aren’t in my, like, direct network, or, you know, some people used to work for me and say, Hey, you got to get in touch with Bill like he’s doing big things, which is really cool, what you’re doing. And it’s crazy to see to like, you know, you’re just just threw this together, and now you’re crushing it. Like, when I was like six months, and I had nothing to show for it. I was probably just like, yeah, my page has like 30 likes.
I just knew I just knew I had to get a bunch of people around man, like when I started it. Like, I remember like the first couple months, man, I started the business like a Kickstarter man, I’m like, Hey, this is the concept you can get on the ground floor level, I have nothing to deliver you for like two months. And people are like, Yeah, all right, you did good work for us that the company you are at Are you stood there and like, kind of don’t tell anybody about it, you know, and it was great. And I used like every dime of that initial startup, to outfit troops and to attract guys, you know, to work not for but like with me, you know, and and like, it was great. It was great. like, dislike my this guy, my buddy Gary, you know, he’s like, the head of our account management department. I mean, the guys like I love him to death, you know, I love working with them. He doesn’t put his name behind bullshit he cares about you know, our clients, and my clients are his clients, they’re ours, you know, and Nate, you know, our, our sales director is just like, they’re just as that that won’t do halfway. And they’re just guys that go all in on anything that they do, whether they’re sweeping the floor, whether they’re trying to figure out a dynamic way of presenting our our clients with a better end product, you know, like, how do we make it easy, and we have these we have these huddle. Every morning, you know, and at the close of business every morning, each one of our divisions has a huddle, they fill out a form that form gets kicked up to all the other management so everyone knows exactly what’s going on in every other division. And then at the end, we have a leadership huddle, where we pull it all together know what’s something short term that we can do to increase the effectiveness of our product to our clients, and what’s something long term that we can do to increase the effectiveness of our product. And like that way, you know, we’re, we’re just trying to get a better man every single day, like, what can we do for a big win in the next seven days? Or can do for big win next three months? And what are we doing now, that’s awesome, that we don’t want to stop doing. You know, and as long as we keep doing the good things, and then keep on looking at the things we could be doing better, hiring better people going from Facebook, to YouTube, to Google and like trying out different, you know, social media, distribution networks, different, you know, search engines, you know, to drive traffic, you know, which one’s going to give the most qualified traffic to our end user. It’s, it tends to just keep getting better man, you know, we’re just, we’re focused on more on the mastering the process than we are unlike Hey, like, we made a bunch of money. You know, it’s good, when we look at the bank accounts, and we’re like, Alright, cool that we can hire more awesome people, you know, we can, we can buy this course that just came out for five grand that I think is going to be a game changer. Let’s buy it and give it to our account managers, you know, this retention for profit course, let’s give you know, this, this YouTube course, you know, to our fulfillment department. So it’s great. We’re not just like making the product better, but we are teaching, you know, the people that work with us more so that they can get up and walk out of our place and get a job someplace we’re making twice as much as they’re making with us. But our hope is, is that, you know, we have such a solid culture that they wouldn’t want to get up and go anyplace else. You know.
I love that perspective. I think it’s Richard Branson. He says your employees aren’t a liability, they’re an asset. And if you’ve got people that are doing the right thing, time and time again, you know, I’m, and maybe to my, to my own fault. But when I say like, Oh, you shouldn’t play favorites, like I look at that more as you should reward excellence and not treat everybody the same as everybody doesn’t perform the same. Like the guy who shows up 30 minutes early, does training, gets on the phone, helps other people and doesn’t ask for anything in return, stays late, will give up opportunities, because he knows that someone else could use a win. Like, I’m going to give that guy more opportunity than the guy who shows up, leaves early complains, gets upset, can’t control his temper, you know, and you’re playing favorites, like I am rewarding on merit. Like I try to take emotions, friendships, all these intangible business things out of the equation. But like if you come in and perform, and black and white metrics on numbers that matter. If you go above and beyond, I will reward you if if its attention leads something that you you need that out of what we normally do. I’m willing to do that for the people that are willing to put in not expecting anything else in return. Because I want that person to feel special. And if someone else sees the special treatment and gets upset by it, it’s not. It’s not just based on well, that guy’s my friend, it’s well that guy’s you know, the best salesman that yet he’s giving you opportunities, when it’s in his best interest to hold on to that lead and call it an hour later, after he gets off the phone with someone else. But you know, neither here nor there. It’s just I know, people said, well, you play favorites. And I’ve got black and white numbers and metrics of why I give attention and rewards to people who earn it not to people who I like people who earn it. And so bill in wrapping up, what what advice would you give to somebody who’s struggling with addiction, drinking, trying to get out of it? What would you say is like the best piece of advice that you would give to someone who’s interested in stopping using
was at a meeting, it was a meeting, I was watching a good friend of mine
be awarded a four year medallion. And at that meeting, there was a guy that that came up
that came up to the stage and was a warning, I guess another guy like a 10 year medallion or something. And he said, he said a lot of things. But one thing that stood out to me said that there’s nothing there’s nothing wrong. You can say to someone who’s ready to get sober. And there’s nothing right that you can say to someone who isn’t ready to get sober. So what I would say to someone who’s considering it is that when you’re ready, we’re here.
So good. And now same question, but geared towards someone who’s trying to make the jump into entrepreneurship. What would you say is the best piece of advice
follow your heart, man. That’s it. You know, I I
went back and forth if I should if I should leave my job or not like I was doing well at that a lot like I had for the first time like cracked into six figures. yearly salary. I don’t have a wife and a kid. I already had toys like a truck a Harley surfboards like a place on the beach. So like I was doing all right, monetarily, but I couldn’t pick like who I wanted to work with where I wanted to work when I wanted to work. And after reading Tim Ferriss book, like I was like, Man, that would be awesome. If I could do that, man, if I could do my job from Costa Rica, or from Bali, or from Thailand or the Dominican Republic, or Colombia, like that would be my dream. And no, like, but what I would say is is is you know, like, like talk to people and write a letter men like my my sponsor at the time, maybe write two letters, one to God, to ask for the willingness to make the leap. that’s truly what I wanted. And the second letter he made me write with my resignation letter to my job before I’d actually quit. And I taped it up near my computer and I looked at it every day until I realized that the pain of me not doing this would be greater than the pain of me doing it because worst case scenario if I would have failed, I would have just
been working at Rush
someplace else as a cell but I don’t know, man, you know, like I knew I had a salesman skill set and I knew I would always be in demand. And my dad’s like, honestly, like, Dude, what do you got to lose? Like, he’s scared the shit. I mean, you can always come back home
and live and I was like, oh,
anything like that?
It’s like I’m never gonna
Yeah, well, I mean, if if the tables for whatever reason something happens you vote you’ve always got a job. Welcome at Rush. And Bill. It was it was great having you on the show, man. I had a lot of fun. And thanks, everyone for listening, self made and sober. If you enjoyed the episode, please like share, subscribe, all those things that aren’t going to put money in my pocket. But I do appreciate the the thumbs up and you know, hopefully we can we can have a big impact and be able to reach people that maybe can’t hear this message, but really need it. So thanks again. Bill is great talking to you.
Thanks for having me on the show. Andrew, appreciate it.
Thank you so much for listening to sell made and sober. Be sure to join our Facebook [email protected] slash groups slash SMC mastermind like self made coaching mastermind. I hope you enjoyed this show.